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MAXís Return Delayed by FAA Reevaluation of 737 Safety Procedures

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MAXís Return Delayed by FAA Reevaluation of 737 Safety Procedures

Old 8th Jun 2019, 22:28
  #241 (permalink)  
 
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No. At this point, the Boeing 737MAX saga is in full swing, with opinions and speculations coming from left and right, without anyone actually knowing any facts.

My personal opinion is that it will return around December - January, and it will take a few months until all the airlines get back to fully using it.
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Old 8th Jun 2019, 22:31
  #242 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Neufunk View Post
No. At this point, the Boeing 737MAX saga is in full swing, with opinions and speculations coming from left and right, without anyone actually knowing any facts.

My personal opinion is that it will return around December - January, and it will take a few months until all the airlines get back to fully using it.
Have no idea about the return, but "Roger That" for your most intelligent statement concerning facts.

Best,
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Old 8th Jun 2019, 22:58
  #243 (permalink)  
 
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The biggest fact is that the FAA have not been given all the facts during the certification of the MAX.

These "facts" are slowly coming to light and not from Boeing in any timely manner.

I have no doubt there are more facts yet to see the light and that is not restricted to MCAS, thing such as simulators and trim wheel forces and other items as mentioned in the media and places such as PPRuNe will be examined and researched by the world regulators that have been assembled.

December/January seems optimistic when considering the level of trust now given to Boeing under it's current leadership.
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 00:49
  #244 (permalink)  
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High G issues? push the nose down 2.5 degrees on a high G manuever?
I think this is the main point. It doesn't hopefully succeed in pushing the nose down but loads the controls in a manner that is equivalent to such an AND input - a load that mimics the aerodynamics of a different aircraft.

In a high g manoeuvre the pilot is not lightly to suddenly let the nose attitude be ripped from his grasp but would naturally accept the stick loads being enhanced.

Real training required.
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 00:53
  #245 (permalink)  
 
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Major modifications could be necessary to ensure a safe aircraft which could require a new type certificate. Boeing are caught between doing enough to restore safety but not so much that the MAX loses its Grandfather rights from the original design. Basically this is what they tried to do with MCAS and it didn’t work.

An interim measure could be to try and fit a FBW flight control system to the MAX and certify it as a new type which would be very expensive and time consuming but less so than a clean sheet design.

Unfortunately Boeing could be caught up in the trade dispute with China and unless the USA lays off on Huawei, the Chinese could refuse to accept any fix, declare the MAX unsafe and ban it from operating in their airspace. Their own narrow body is only a couple of years away from entering service and whilst not quite matching the A320/B737 its a credible enough alternative. Performance improvements will undoubtedly follow over the years as they have for most aircraft types.
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 03:23
  #246 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
The biggest fact is that the FAA have not been given all the facts during the certification of the MAX.

These "facts" are slowly coming to light and not from Boeing in any timely manner.

I have no doubt there are more facts yet to see the light and that is not restricted to MCAS, thing such as simulators and trim wheel forces and other items as mentioned in the media and places such as PPRuNe will be examined and researched by the world regulators that have been assembled.

December/January seems optimistic when considering the level of trust now given to Boeing under it's current leadership.
My very first ride in an airplane was a rather old B737 100 series. Always liked Boeing planes and especially the 747 and the 737. With the MCAS debacle I am afraid Boeing has shown some level of incompetence or worse, deception. Not attributes I would normally associate with Boeing.

If the Max doesn't get back in the air world wide after say a year, then it could be safe to say it is over for the type. Boeing will have to revert to making the NG while it draws up plans and implements those plans for a whole new plane. The Max may be Maxed out . This is not my hope for the aircraft. I do hope they sort it all out nicely and it goes on to many decades of dependable service. I'd like to fly on one too.
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 08:38
  #247 (permalink)  
 
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I do hope they sort it all out nicely and it goes on to many decades of dependable service.
complete with the 1960s 6 pack Crew Alerting system
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 08:39
  #248 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by maxxer View Post
As they all have troubles with these lqtest generation engines.
I wonder really on a 737 flight how much it saves between a stansted to barcelona flight. The only thing you read is that they are more efficient so how much more ?
I live under a flight path in belgium well not actually the flight path , but just because they are not allowed to fly over brussel that much the take off to the south and then head west and then fly around brussel to go east again to germany for example.
But I checked the noise and an old 747f doesnt make more noise then a 787 while the 787 was on a shorter trip then the 747f so the super new engines dont really do much in the improvement of noise.
So i am curious if the the leap engine compare to the old CFM56 engine really makes so much up in fuel efficiency or this is just some guy with excel sheets.
14% saving in fuel burn has been validated, Iíve done enough trips from both EDI & DUB to SWF & PVD on both new-ish NG & the MAX and the saving in fuel burn is real world real.

The MAX is quieter both internally and externally, down sides? well BRM ( bow rotor motoring) during high internal/external ambient temperature is embarrassingly slow to start the engines at between 2-3 minutes -V- 40 seconds on a standard CMF on busy ramps such as LGW, the MAXís empty CoG is much further forward than the NG means that you have to fill rear hold first before you put anything in the front hold, so mixed operations with NG & MAX needs carefully monitoring on the ramp, on the plus side tail tipping is close to impossible on the MAX ( this will be an even bigger problem if they ever convert them to freighters with the heavy PEMCO cargo hold door)
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 08:48
  #249 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by armchairpilot94116 View Post
If the Max doesn't get back in the air world wide after say a year, then it could be safe to say it is over for the type. Boeing will have to revert to making the NG while it draws up plans and implements those plans for a whole new plane. The Max may be Maxed out . This is not my hope for the aircraft. I do hope they sort it all out nicely and it goes on to many decades of dependable service. I'd like to fly on one too.
I understand there is one Airline meeting planned in the next few weeks in Germany where one point of discussion will be the possibility of changing their order of MAXs back to NGs.
It may only take one airline with a significant order of MAXs to do this , possibly kicking off a domino effect with others?



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Old 9th Jun 2019, 09:50
  #250 (permalink)  
 
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complete with the 1960s 6 pack Crew Alerting system
Guaranteed 80% will work 90% of the time.
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 15:07
  #251 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EIFFS View Post


14% saving in fuel burn has been validated, Iíve done enough trips from both EDI & DUB to SWF & PVD on both new-ish NG & the MAX and the saving in fuel burn is real world real.

The MAX is quieter both internally and externally, down sides? well BRM ( bow rotor motoring) during high internal/external ambient temperature is embarrassingly slow to start the engines at between 2-3 minutes -V- 40 seconds on a standard CMF on busy ramps such as LGW, the MAXís empty CoG is much further forward than the NG means that you have to fill rear hold first before you put anything in the front hold, so mixed operations with NG & MAX needs carefully monitoring on the ramp, on the plus side tail tipping is close to impossible on the MAX ( this will be an even bigger problem if they ever convert them to freighters with the heavy PEMCO cargo hold door)
Thanks great info shows that they had to do something to keep up airbus.
Wonder on all these Ryanair weekend flights where lots of passengers travel without hold luggage how are they gonna level this CoG out ?
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 15:24
  #252 (permalink)  
 
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What is the difference in fuel efficiency between the MAX and the NG? IS that 14%?
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 16:51
  #253 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by maxxer View Post
Thanks great info shows that they had to do something to keep up airbus.
Wonder on all these Ryanair weekend flights where lots of passengers travel without hold luggage how are they gonna level this CoG out ?
Several years ago, I read here that Ryanair may block few rows for trim purposes and they put bags for free in the hold it they need to.


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Old 9th Jun 2019, 17:30
  #254 (permalink)  
 
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  • 09 June, 2019
  • SOURCE: Flight Dashboard
  • BY: Edward Russell
  • Washington DC
American Airlines has removed the Boeing 737 Max from schedules through September, as questions over when the jet will return to service continue to swirl.

The Fort Worth, Texas-based carrier has cancelled all flights operated by its fleet of 24 737 Max 8 aircraft through 3 September, it says today. It will cancel . roughly 115 flights a day as a result.

"American Airlines remains confident that impending software updates to the Boeing 737 Max, along with the new training elements Boeing is developing in coordination with our union partners, will lead to recertification of the aircraft soon," the airline says in a statement, adding that they are "pleased with the progress to date".

American previously expected the 737 Max to resume flying by 19 August.

=rightAmerican Airlines

Boeing has completed a software update for the Max, however, global regulators still need to review and test it before they will be willing to re-certify the aircraft.

Daniel Elwell, acting administrator of the US Federal Aviation Administration, was unwilling to provide a target return-to-service timeline for the 737 Max when asked in May.

Fellow Max operators Southwest Airlines and United Airlines have also removed the aircraft from schedules through August. Scott Kirby, president of United, told reporters on 5 June that the Chicago-based carrier had "a couple weeks" before it had to make a decision on whether to cancel flights beyond 3 August.

"I don't know," he said when asked when the Max will return to service. "What I'm certain of is the aircraft is not going to be flying again ad re-certifed to fly until we're all certain that the aircraft is safe and gone through adequate review process with the regulatory agencies."

United operated 14 737 Max 9 when the type was grounded in March. The airline's chief executive Oscar Munoz told FlightGlobal in May that, while their top priority was returning the aircraft to service, they planned to seek compensation from Boeing for the grounding.

Southwest had 34 737-8s in service in March. It has cancelled flights through 1 August.
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 18:23
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Originally Posted by krismiler View Post
If the MAX stays grounded until the end of this year, which is quite likely, then with current production rates and the number already sitting on the ground, we could be looking at nearly 700 aircraft parked.

Many airlines would be unable to have all their aircraft on the ground at their home base at the same time due to lack of space and rely on the fact that most of the time they will be in the air or turning around at out stations.

The MAXs already in service at the start of the grounding are reasonably well dispersed worldwide, however with the number already produced since they stopped flying and 40-50 more coming out of the factory doors each month, where are Boeing going to store them ?
I heard Kelly AFB in Texas should the number of grounded jets pass a unspecified number will be used for storage.
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 19:03
  #256 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rwy in Sight View Post
Several years ago, I read here that Ryanair may block few rows for trim purposes and they put bags for free in the hold it they need to.
Er, Ballast?
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 20:23
  #257 (permalink)  
 
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I always wondered how can you find ballast in a 25' time span at an international airport - which means you cant go out and dig some dirt.
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 21:15
  #258 (permalink)  
 
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Didnt Ryanair certify their ac at a lower MLW to reduce landing fees?
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 21:37
  #259 (permalink)  
 
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Ryanair don't pay landing fees do they?
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 22:01
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Originally Posted by Smythe View Post
Didnt Ryanair certify their ac at a lower MLW to reduce landing fees?
They operate at three different zero fuel weights even on a daily basis. This reduces a variety of charges including ATC
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