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Garuda cancels its MAX order

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Garuda cancels its MAX order

Old 22nd Mar 2019, 12:12
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Garuda cancels its MAX order

A billion-pound order. How many to follow ?
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 12:56
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Strictly speaking, Garuda have requested cancellation. I very much doubt they can simply walk away from their order.

Garuda have also been at pains to state that they're not necessarily binning Boeing and may look at taking a different 737 variant.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 12:57
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Carriers like Virgin who have a hundred odd 737s dropping their orders for what the NEO? Highly unlikely.
Boeing's damage may be restricted because Airbus Neos are booked for the next six years.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 13:01
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
Garuda have also been at pains to state that they're not necessarily binning Boeing and may look at taking a different 737 variant.
I was under the impression that the order book for the NG versions was closed, and pretty much the final couple of fuselage tubes (other than military P-8 and E-7) have or are just about to leave the plant...?

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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 13:14
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Originally Posted by GeeRam View Post
I was under the impression that the order book for the NG versions was closed, and pretty much the final couple of fuselage tubes (other than military P-8 and E-7) have or are just about to leave the plant...?
My apologies. On re-reading the story, Garuda say they may replace it with "another model" rather than another 737 variant, although the inference was that they would stick with Boeing.
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 14:39
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
My apologies. On re-reading the story, Garuda say they may replace it with "another model" rather than another 737 variant, although the inference was that they would stick with Boeing.
I imagine that this would be because they have already made payments with respect to their MAX order and would want to recover as much of that as possible, a negotiation that would suit both parties
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Old 22nd Mar 2019, 15:39
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Originally Posted by GeeRam View Post
I was under the impression that the order book for the NG versions was closed, and pretty much the final couple of fuselage tubes (other than military P-8 and E-7) have or are just about to leave the plant...?
According the Boeing states 2019 they still have 93 NG to deliver .
Re Garuda type change story , well the immediate aircraft to order next after the Max is the 787 . quite a big jump., and I guess the 787 order book is filled up for the next 5 years as well .Plus Garuda and Lion use their 73s mostly domestically , most or relatively short routes, not exactly made for a long range 787. So I do really not buy the "swap" story.
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 08:36
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher View Post
According the Boeing states 2019 they still have 93 NG to deliver .
Re Garuda type change story , well the immediate aircraft to order next after the Max is the 787 . quite a big jump., and I guess the 787 order book is filled up for the next 5 years as well .Plus Garuda and Lion use their 73s mostly domestically , most or relatively short routes, not exactly made for a long range 787. So I do really not buy the "swap" story.
They might convert the MAX orders into some of Boeing‘s long haul aircraft to salvage their payments, and still fill the gap in the short/med haul sector by leasing or otherwise getting used Airbus aircraft.
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 12:37
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As a retired Reuters journalist (and pilot) in my opinion this story is much more complex.

The general opinion appears to be that Boeing tried to catch up with Airbus by modifying a 50 year old design with bolt on technology and computer software. This meant no new costly FAA paperwork to sign off .

Added to this scenario was the fact the US government effectively allowed Boeing carte blanche certification.

Boeing are now in a very serious legal and sales situation.

Clearly the airlines with expensive grounded aircraft are going to be talking recompense and lawyers shortly.

Added to this is the issue that Boeing face with public trust in their aircraft.

Meanwhile Airbus sales teams are going to milk this for what it is worth.

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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 12:53
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The other issue which doesn't appear to be reported on is the the overall effect on the US trade deficit and the US/China trade talks idea of China buying more 737's
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 12:57
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..... Meanwhile Airbus sales teams are going to milk this for what it is worth.
How so?

It's not like they have lots of product sitting on a shelf in their store

and it's never good to bad mouth the other guy when you have your own problems not yet visible
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 13:12
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Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post
How so?

It's not like they have lots of product sitting on a shelf in their store

and it's never good to bad mouth the other guy when you have your own problems not yet visible
Well I see you are in Florida and I am here in South East Asia.

Low cost operators are in a cut throat business in this part of the world.

Air Asia is one of the fastest growing among the loco’s and they are major Airbus buyers while Lionair are operating a mixed fleet.

It appears Lionair will cancel Boeing next followed by a raft of other buyers.

Vietjet and others are sitting on easily cancelled orders.

As for the 737 Max I imagine that Boeing will take a big financial hit trying to shift what is now a maligned aircraft.

As for your suggestion ‘it’s never good to bad mouth the other guy’ sadly that is what salespeople do all the time.

The bottom line here is that Boeing have been caught out by Airbus technology and in trying to catch up they have re engineered the Model T Ford.

The Chinese have got the Comac C919 which will be serious competition for the 727 Max.

Never dismiss Chinese technology. I have spent a large amount of time here over the last 20 years.








Last edited by Mike Flynn; 23rd Mar 2019 at 13:29.
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 14:19
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
Strictly speaking, Garuda have requested cancellation. I very much doubt they can simply walk away from their order.

Garuda have also been at pains to state that they're not necessarily binning Boeing and may look at taking a different 737 variant.
But the negative impression of Boeing is sure to follow in the minds of airline operators. I am sure Airbus will see an upsurge of orders as loyal customers abandon Boeing. The whole affair makes me think companies are going back to their old ways...taking no responsibility and covering up problems. Too bad they have destroyed their hard won good will with the flying public. Maybe the CEO should resign as he seems to be a goofball at best.
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 14:45
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I'm looking forward to the 727 Max
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 14:53
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Mike flynn

once Boeing have a fix for this problem and the aircraft is back in service the general public will soon forget and the 737 will march on for another forty years.

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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 15:25
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I can see a rebranding exercise in the not too distant future.
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 15:40
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The culture at Boeing has changed for the worse and probably more of this will show up in the future. They got caught this time but what else has been swept under the carpet?
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 16:30
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Maybe the 737 can be 'fixed', what about the certification process in general ?
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 18:43
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Originally Posted by A and C View Post
once Boeing have a fix for this problem and the aircraft is back in service the general public will soon forget and the 737 will march on for another forty years.
Not so sure of that , as this reminds me of the DC10 days for those here old enough to remember. . When late night shows start to make jokes about it and question its ability to fly , the general public starts to be aware of the problems and vote with its feet.
Maybe the news cycle in 2019 is much shorter than it was in the 1970s, and you are right, people may forget soon , but I can see , just like the DC10, the Max effectively being restricted to the US market and a few exotic users, while a re branded version will be pushed up ( e.g. the MD-11) .

In addition to this, I was just watching CNN where the CEO of Ethiopian was interviewed by Richard Quest , and he declared that he lost confidence in Boeing and cancellation of its Max orders were being looked at.
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Old 23rd Mar 2019, 21:34
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I'm not really old enough to remember myself, but I guess it wasn't really smooth sailing for Airbus either in the beginning with theire FBW systems. But I agree it's like comparing apples with oranges, since A320 was state of the art technology back then. But in today's world people forget these kind of things quite quickly.
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