Garuda cancels its MAX order

[Rated De]

Originally Posted by pax2908

Maybe the 737 can be 'fixed', what about the certification process in general ?

precisely.

The 737 MAX is the symptom.
The root cause is systemic failure.
Normalisation of Deviance.

[armchairpilot94116]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...662_story.html

Lion cancels its orders as well as reported on the radio after Garuda cancels.

Big trouble brewing for Boeing . If the entire max orders get cancelled worldwide it would be the end of the 737 and put Boeing on the govt bail out

[neville_nobody]

The 737 MAX is the symptom.
The root cause is systemic failure.
Normalisation of Deviance.

The root cause believe it or not was the 787. Boeing admitted that they should have just built the whole thing in house and got it right the first time. Instead they outsourced it had a laundry list of problems which flowed into production delays.

Plan A was to make the 737 Max a new design using 787 technology but that became so delayed they were then forced to cobble the 737 back together with even bigger engines to be able to compete with the A320 and now here we are with a looming disaster. Even if the Max gets going again there might be so much negative publicity that people refuse to fly on it. That will be Boeing's and the Airlines worst nightmare.

[CurtainTwitcher]

Originally Posted by neville_nobody

The root cause believe it or not was the 787. Boeing admitted that they should have just built the whole thing in house and got it right the first time. Instead they outsourced it had a laundry list of problems which flowed into production delays.

Plan A was to make the 737 Max a new design using 787 technology but that became so delayed they were then forced to cobble the 737 back together with even bigger engines to be able to compete with the A320 and now here we are with a looming disaster. Even if the Max gets going again there might be so much negative publicity that people refuse to fly on it. That will be Boeing's and the Airlines worst nightmare.

In doing so, they are likely have already pushed airlines into the arms of Airbus. Think about it, this iteration of the 737 is the airframe is maxed out (no pun intended). There is unlikely to be another 737 generation of commonality for airlines. They are going to have to bite the bullet with pilot training, either way with the next narrow body Boeing 7x7 or an Airbus product. Why take a risk on the 7x7 when there is a good airframe today, that still has the ability to grow into the future with minimal CCQ costs?

Airbus looks to have made far sighted design decisions with the A32x family.

[BluSdUp]

A vs B

Not to mention that Airbus have the A220 separate type mind u
Then A319 A 320 A 321 A 320Neo A 321 Neo + LR A330 A 330Neo and finally the Boeing killer the A350 in 2 or 3 versions.
Nobrainer for new orders:
Drop Boeing

[Sailvi767]

Originally Posted by fantom

A billion-pound order. How many to follow ?

They were considering canceling the order prior to the max issues.

[JLWSanDiego]

Originally Posted by weemonkey

"Meanwhile Airbus sales teams are going to milk this for what it is worth."

I don't think they will have to try at all.

I am sure there are those that will welcome the availability of production slots freed up by canceling these orders

[EIFFS]

Well most on here I guess haven’t flown the MAX, all I can say is that having got 300+ hours on the MAX it’s a lovely bit of kit to fly, or was!!

First of let let me say that in light of the Ethiopian crash grounding was a no brainier, I’ve heard people say ah well it’s Indonesian or Africain pilots, but there’s the rub, aircraft are sold all over the world and should be fairly idiot proof, that’s not to suggest that the pilots involved were idiots, anyone who has flown the 738 is well aware that the STS involves lots of trim changes to match the Stab to the speed at lower speeds and weights, we are all used to the trim wheel wizzing back an forth, so we don’t immediately go “ah stab runaway” and flick the cut out switches.

So for Boeing to bolt on a sub system onto the STS and not tell us about it is probably criminal, yes flicking the switches will sort it but STAB Runaway you expect continous triming, not triming in fits and starts because that’s normal at lower speeds.

Turning to the way forward I have no doubt that Boeing will resolve this problem, yes maybe a rebrand of sorts, of course were there to be a further airframe loss even if unrelated that would spell serious trouble for airlines flying the max.

I expect it will be back flying in 2-3 weeks give or take, how long it will take the passenger to return is open to speculation.

[er340790]

Well, in my jaundiced view, I would almost put money on the 'Max' name being quietly dropped in the months ahead and some such nomenclature as the 737-8000 / 9000 etc etc etc appearing in its stead.

[Mike Flynn]

What happens to the grounded aircraft that are leased?
Can the airlines dump the problem on the lessor?





It will be interesting to see how this week pans out.

Viet Jet is waiting for the results of the investigation.

The Asian carrier, which has 200 737 Max planes on order valued at about $25 billion before standard discounts, says it will decide on future plans for the aircraft after aviation officials finish their investigation and issue a conclusion on incident.

“Vietjet has well managed our fleet so far and our transport business plans are unchanged.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-boeing-update