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U.S grounds ALL 737 Max

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U.S grounds ALL 737 Max

Old 13th Mar 2019, 18:37
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Exclamation U.S grounds ALL 737 Max

per announcement from White House

link may follow

NYT partly screwed up

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/13/b...a-737-max.html
Trump Announces Ban of Boeing 737 Max Flights

Video
Canada Bans Boeing 737 Max

By Cctv, Via Associated Press



0:59Canada Bans Boeing 737 Max


  • March 13, 2019
President Trump announced that the United States was grounding Boeing’s 737 Max aircraft, reversing an earlier decision by American regulators to keep the jets flying in the wake of a second deadly crash involving one of the jets in Ethiopia.The Federal Aviation Administration had for days resisted calls to ground the plane even as safety regulators in some 42 countries hadbanned flights by the jets. As recently as Tuesday, the agency said it had seen “no systemic performance issues” that would prompt it to halt flights of the jet.The order came hours after Canada’s transport minister said that newly available satellite-tracking data suggested similarities between the crash in Ethiopia and another accident last October.

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Old 13th Mar 2019, 18:41
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Trump says FAA & Boeing in agreement.
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 21:56
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What’s that Boeing marketing slogan again?

they were interviewing passengers at an airport the other day, and they were actually using it.

”If it says Boeing, I ain’t going”
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 00:04
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Is it unusual for such announcements to originate from the White House?

mjb
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 00:12
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The issue, in my mind, is the silence of Boeing and the FAA, in the face of serious public concerns. I'm not a huge Trump supporter, but something needed to be said and done.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 00:17
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That's good to hear, glad to see erring on the side of caution
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 01:41
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Originally Posted by CONSO View Post
per announcement from White House
Trump Announces Ban of Boeing 737 Max Flights


Still a few in the air ATM over US/Canada mostly...
BOE123
WJA8978
ACA7056
ACA7054


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Old 14th Mar 2019, 02:17
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All crew-only recovery flights. BOE= Boeing test/undelivered flights. 8900-series flights are maintenance/special flights per ICAO. ACA used 7xxx numbers as ferry flights to maintenance bases. At KPSP, the ACA aircraft arrived as normal from CYVR; the turnaround was a ferry to CYYC instead of CYVR and departed only a few minutes later than the originally scheduled revenue flight.

Last edited by kenish; 14th Mar 2019 at 23:35. Reason: **Corrected per Seat4A comment below***
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 03:21
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Originally Posted by Dee Vee View Post
Still a few in the air ATM over US/Canada mostly...
.......
ACA7056
ACA7054

........
Originally Posted by kenish View Post
.....ACA used previously scheduled flight numbers but flew to maintenance bases.

These ACA flights and others that were in the air with 4 digits such as above, were all ferry flights. Seen here. These are not regular flight numbers.

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Old 14th Mar 2019, 03:32
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Originally Posted by mickjoebill View Post
Is it unusual for such announcements to originate from the White House?

mjb
Very unusual. From press reports:
  • Until Tuesday night, the FAA did not want to ground the 737 Max
  • On Wednesday morning, new ADS-B data from Aireon was received. This contradicts earlier reports saying that the FAA received Aireon data on Monday or Tuesday.
  • Reportedly there were also additional, undisclosed clues from recovered wreckage pointing to "similarities" with the Lion Air accident
  • The FAA still elected not to ground the Max fleet
  • 1pm Wednesday, FAA's acting chief briefed Trump and Secretary of Transportation Elaine Chao on latest information
  • Trump made the decision to ground the Max fleet
  • Trump calls Boeing CEO, who concurs with the decision
  • Trump announces the decision, pre-empting the FAA
  • FAA scrambles as Trump's announcement came "as a shock" to FAA managers
  • FAA acting chief suggested in a post-conference that there are still doubts within FAA about the grounding
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 04:02
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Why would FAA (which btw is led by a former military pilot, is it not?) resisted the groundings? In the past they were always on the side of caution. Two planes down in 5 months, the public is very concerned, yet they don't act. I don't want to speculate about the obvious suspicion of corruption but what could any other reasons be?
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 05:48
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Very good article on Leehams about this and what Boeing needs to do.

https://leehamnews.com/2019/03/13/co...-transparency/
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 07:30
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Preemo , #11
A very telling article from Lehman.
The non-standard presidential intervention also adds to the FAA’s problems, reputation, trust, worldly image.
Additionally, some un substantiated reports state that the grounding lasts until Boeing has a modification, i.e not just a temporary grounding for safety until more information is available.
If so this implies that irrespective of the outcome of the Ethiopian accident, there is now sufficient concern about Lion to warrant grounding.
Trump has built his wall - around Boeing and FAA, and it is very much higher than normal.

P.S. Also https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-s...n-the-737-max/

Last edited by safetypee; 14th Mar 2019 at 07:41. Reason: P.S.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 07:31
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Any FAA official who grounded the B737 Max would have no chance of retiring from government service and joining Boeing. In the US, it's not unusual to have people moving from senior positions in the public sector into the private sector and vice versa within the same industry.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 07:46
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Originally Posted by krismiler View Post
Any FAA official who grounded the B737 Max would have no chance of retiring from government service and joining Boeing. In the US, it's not unusual to have people moving from senior positions in the public sector into the private sector and vice versa within the same industry.
His name was Ali Bahrani, FAA Safety director (787 program) then after signing off on the battery fix (which didn't fix anything) went onto to lobby for more self regulation on behalf of the industry.

Now back with the revolving door at the FAA.
Regulatory capture is very real and soft corruption pays big dividend.

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Old 14th Mar 2019, 10:01
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stick pusher

Hello, retired many years ago .Flew 737 200/300/400 and really liked the plane. This MCAS system looks similar to the ALSAS on the MD 11. Can anybody explain me why the stick pusher uses the stabiliser iso the elevator ?
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 12:11
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Originally Posted by Good memories View Post
Hello, retired many years ago .Flew 737 200/300/400 and really liked the plane. This MCAS system looks similar to the ALSAS on the MD 11. Can anybody explain me why the stick pusher uses the stabiliser iso the elevator ?
LSAS is a stab augmentation system that made up for a relaxed stability arising from a reduced relative tail volume.MegaDeath2 pitch stability is enhanced in both directions.... The Max system is specifically related to a particular part of the envelope, where static stability reduces, where a pitch up tendency is developing. Both are related to static stability, but are for different causation, and act in different manners.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 12:20
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Recent posts on the main thread, that happen to be from Seattle, give a very clear understanding of the design logic. But first read the Jakarta thread in full before starting again with last Sunday's crash thread. Put aside several hours for the task.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 14:27
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Read outs Lionair flight & crash FDR



Trim / Auto Trim read outs : chilling.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 14:38
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keesje, is there any FDR printout indicating slat position during that flight.
The interest is that slat triggering also depends on AoA and is in the same computational box as MCAS.
Furthermore, the mechanism of slat signalling was specifically changed in the Max (electronic?)
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