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Ethiopian airliner down in Africa

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Ethiopian airliner down in Africa

Old 10th Mar 2019, 12:14
  #61 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by TallInTheSaddle View Post
No smoke, no real residue, no other people on scene?
There are plenty of folk standing in the background of this crater photo from ETHIOPIAN AIRLINES Facebook page.


Kenya press reports 7 Brits on board

Last edited by rog747; 10th Mar 2019 at 12:34. Reason: Kenya reports 7 Brits on board
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 12:16
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by procede View Post
Another AoA / stall recovery / horizontal stabilizer autotrim problem?
Within minutes of the news we are speculating already ??

Seriously ?
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 12:17
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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What else have Boeing put into this airplane to adjust its flight, but left out of the FCOM because pilots 'don't need to know' ?
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 12:19
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MungoP View Post
We have no ideas beyond some possibly educated guess-work as to what happened here but I do have a question that can be answered by someone with the relevant experience. As a 10,000 + hr career pilot I'm not exactly a newby but have not any experience with the latest sophisticated systems being introduced on modern aircraft.
Q. Is there something preventing pilots of these aircraft from simply hitting a 'disconnect' button, listening for the 'C' tone and then getting on with flying manually ? Not suggesting that this is relevant to this accident.
No is the answer.
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 12:26
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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strange coincidence. in both LTI610 and ET502 final groundspeed 383kts...
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 12:29
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Guys, please be careful with these flight data, which many regard as God given correct.

I really think the Ethiopians know where that plane ended up and if it did where they posted then it is pretty far from that ominous last position. FR24 themselfs writte that they do not have close reception there, it is a hilly area and if they never got above 9000 ft MSL they could well have been in terrain shadow or simply out of reception for the remainder of the flight.

I follow small airplans with ADS-B here often (mine amongst others) and have lost count when they lost my track so many times in areas I would not assume they have bad quality reception, at 3000 ft AGL and so on. To assume that in this case,where a plane flew at barely 1000 ft over Ethiopian hills and lower than low, where they have maybe one or two receivers, is simply fishing for information we don't have.

Yes, it is a new Max which went down, but before calling for grounding or producing other media trash food, let's get a grip of what happened. It usually doesn't take that long.

Without a proper crash position, we know absolutely nothing other than the ADS-B feed stopped at that position which was at approx 9000 ft MSL and in the runway extention. We do not see the descent we do not see the impact. So WAIT for a proper position before trying to guess what happened.
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 12:29
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lpvapproach View Post
Within minutes of the news we are speculating already ??

Seriously ?
There's one in every thread Amazes me when someone logs on to the PPRumourNetwork and then complains about rumours.

Presumably they're the ones who buy houses at the end of runways so they can complain about aircraft noise...
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 12:30
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Casualty list

Casualty nationalities ex- BBC Africa service et al

32 Kenyan

18 Canadian

9 Ethiopian

8 Chinese

8 Italian

8 American

7 French

7 British

6 Egyptian

5 Dutch

4 UN passports

4 Indian

3 Russian

2 Moroccan

2 Israeli

1 Belgian

1 Ugandan

1 Yemeni

1 Sudanese

1 Togolese

1 Mozambican

1 Norwegian

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Old 10th Mar 2019, 12:33
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rcsa View Post


Respectfully, and as someone who lives in africa and travels extensively round the continent, ET is a dreadful airline, running what we call a ‘chicken bus’ service (think of an African bus with chickens tied to the roof). Bole Airport is absolutely one of the worlds worst, and I’ve had more scary flights on ET than I have had on any other airline - and I am not a nervous flier at all.

Trundling around africa I’d rather fly KQ/SAA/RAM/THY before ET.

Personally I would wait a while before blaming the aircraft. It’s also possible it was something more akin to human (pilot/ground handling/security/ATC) error.


Oh puh lease which planet are you on? Ethiopian has always been a very professional airline with an excellent safety record and mostly excellent service and reliability. They were managed by TWA during the 60s and 70s and have always kept their professionalism intact. I find your comments offensive.
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 12:35
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If that earlier picture shows the main crash site I wonder if there is anything left of the FDRs.
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 12:41
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by nojwod View Post
Oh puh lease which planet are you on? Ethiopian has always been a very professional airline with an excellent safety record and mostly excellent service and reliability. They were managed by TWA during the 60s and 70s and have always kept their professionalism intact. I find your comments offensive.
Three hijacks and four hull loss (two of those with loss of all souls) in 25 years is not exactly an ‘excellent’ safety record by my standards. I
live on planet Africa. I fly +/- 50 trans-African routes a year, and have done for 25 years. Based on my experience, my choice is to avoid ET wherever and whenever possible.
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 12:42
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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B737 Max differences training

Originally Posted by mryan75 View Post

No is the answer.
B737 Max differences training takes approx 2.5 hours to complete, mostly it talks about differences in indications on the screens, temp control and PSEU light has been replaced. Engine differences and some procedures.

There is nothing to say that it has to be flown differently than an NG considering a Trim Runaway option, same drills apply. Disconnect AP, switch off AP trim and than Backup trim, use manual trim wheel... In short.
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 12:44
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JCviggen View Post
If that earlier picture shows the main crash site I wonder if there is anything left of the FDRs.
It's absurd that flight telemetry and data is not transmitted in real time to satellites and sent back to the aircraft manufacturer.rather than being recorded on FDRs that are lost at sea or destroyed
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 12:49
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-africa-47513534


"'Captain wanted to return' The CEO of Ethiopian Airlines Tewolde Gebremariam is speaking at a press conference. He said the captain of the crashed plane had told controllers at Bole airport that he was having difficulty and wanted to return, and that he had been given clearance. He also said that the plane had arrived on Sunday morning from South Africa. “[The] plane had more than three hours of ground time after coming from South Africa, it arrived with no remark and was dispatched with no remark.” Mr Tewolde said smoke was still smouldering at the crash site when he visited."
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 12:50
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Another picture fron the crash site.
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 12:51
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Firstly condolences to those who have lost loved ones in a part of the world where this can mean a great deal of additional hardships.

PPRuNe falling into a few of it's regular traps with debates on whether it's AMSL or GPS altitude and so on. With the usual major provisos about FR24 data (it does show the aircraft airborne at 93kts), it is reasonably clear that it never achieved a normal climb rate for more than a few seconds and therefore it is obvious it never climbed much higher than the surrounding terrain. I'm not current on B737 MAX but my understanding is that MCAS would not be active with flaps out as they must have been at that stage. It did however accelerate in forward speed considerably so it was not short of power.

Bear in mind there is a new reformist PM running Ethiopia who is of a different tribe to the previous power holders and that the flight was to Kenya which has, along with Ethiopia had some security issues with Somalian groups. Nonetheless the profile tends to indicate the cause may lie in the territory of spatial disorientation, configuration, mishandling or technical failure. Not casting unfair aspertions but that is often where the cause lies.

RIP
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 12:51
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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terrorism?

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Old 10th Mar 2019, 12:52
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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New crash site photo
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 12:52
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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I thinks it's an expensive option...

​​​​​​To have telemetry data streamed live via satcom.
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 12:53
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Whether or not the MCAS is to blame, remains to be seen.
Fact is, that someone at Boeing RIGHT NOW is saying to himself: “I sure hope that the MCAS has nothing to do with it...!”

What a tragedy.
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