Air Astana flight serious problems over Lisbon
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Not an Embraer pilot, disconnecting the FCM and flying in direct mode as they did, would that have taken the spoilerons out of the loop leaving with them with just the reversed ailerons? Wow, what a fantastic flying job by this crew! I'm sure we will be studying this for years to come as an example of exceptional decision making and CRM.
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In the configuration pictured in the synoptic page, the spoilers would be creating adverse yaw, while the ailerons would be rolling the aircraft (the wrong way). On instruments, I suspect the adverse yaw would play with your mind and make it even harder to keep the wings level.
Good thing they didn't crash right after rotation and were thus able to eventually work out their problems sufficiently to calm down a bit and land the aircraft.
Good thing they didn't crash right after rotation and were thus able to eventually work out their problems sufficiently to calm down a bit and land the aircraft.
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I guess the bank angle protection only made things way worse trying to level up but instead increasing the roll. What a nightmare...
Last edited by MountainSnake; 14th Nov 2018 at 23:59. Reason: Spelling
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PPRUNE seems to be a credible source of information : https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/air-astana-plane-pilots-lose-control-portugal-flightpath-embraer-190-a8629491.html
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Thanks, Netra. Can you send me a PM with the link?
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Flight control check?
If this was just out of maintenance, wouldn't a "free and correct" check of the controls be on the to-do list prior to departure?
I'm not putting the blame on the pilots ... it just seems like an omission that could have been easily spotted.
I'm not putting the blame on the pilots ... it just seems like an omission that could have been easily spotted.
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well, it is not the first time someone take off with missed items...
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Originally Posted by Vessbot
The spoilers make proverse yaw, the way we want it. Yoke right, right spoilers up, more drag on the right side, right yaw.
The thought of bank angle protection operating in that environment scares me, and I'm relatively fearless.
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Only problem is, on this aircraft, in the problem configuration, yoke right, aircraft rolls left, spoilers create right yaw. Somehow, that doesn't feel like balanced flight to me, therefore the reason for my statement.
The thought of bank angle protection operating in that environment scares me, and I'm relatively fearless.
The thought of bank angle protection operating in that environment scares me, and I'm relatively fearless.
So basicly, when using small inputs, the airplane will roll in the wrong direction because only the aileron actuates.
When using larger inputs the spoilers will have more authority than the aileron, reversing the roll in the right direction. Crazy flying.
'Bank Angle' is an alert only. There's no protection in roll. The wing will go down until you stop it.
I'm sure there is much more to this than "just" the aileron issue. Maybe weather, maybe crew, maybe something else.
Just giving thanks that they all survived.
I'm sure there is much more to this than "just" the aileron issue. Maybe weather, maybe crew, maybe something else.
Just giving thanks that they all survived.
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Here's the Kazakh report about the Captain (Russian) that Netra mentioned as well as a half decent Google translation. According to another report from the same source, the airline suspects errors during C-Check maintenance as a probable cause.
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Am I correct in thinking that an A320 had a similar issue following maitnenance with reverse connected roll control surfaces on a pax flight out of LGW several years ago? Or is my memory at fault?
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How many previous crossed-cable incidents happened on aircraft that also had roll spoilers? Most of the types mentioned above predate automated roll spoilers.
As noted above, if the sense of the controls is exactly reversed you might get used to it (for example using the one hand on each column method) but if the controls essentially reverse authority as you command more roll (due to the ailerons being overpowered by the roll spoilers) then you're in a very rarely explored situation. If there are some exceptional-airmanship awards being handed out, these guys should be near the front of the line.
As noted above, if the sense of the controls is exactly reversed you might get used to it (for example using the one hand on each column method) but if the controls essentially reverse authority as you command more roll (due to the ailerons being overpowered by the roll spoilers) then you're in a very rarely explored situation. If there are some exceptional-airmanship awards being handed out, these guys should be near the front of the line.
. If there are some exceptional-airmanship awards being handed out, these guys should be near the front of the line.