Overcontrolling results in unusual attitude situation?
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Overcontrolling results in unusual attitude situation?
Incident: Azur B752 at Antalya on Jun 16th 2018, approach to stall and excessive bank angle during go aroundsAn Azur Air Boeing 757-200, registration VQ-BKF performing flight ZF-5495 from Novosibirsk (Russia) to Antalya (Turkey), was on final approach to Antalya's runway 36L in poor weather conditions when the crew initiated a go around at about 1100 feet MSL and about 170 knots over ground, the airspeed dropped sharply reaching 131 knots over ground at 1700 feet MSL, the aircraft descended a bit recovering the speed to about 170 knots over ground and continued the climb. The aircraft positioned for an approach to Antalya's runway 36R and was on final descending through 1600 feet about 2nm before the runway threshold when the crew initiated another go around, on climbing through about 3000 feet the aircraft entered a very sharp right turn to turn downwind, positioned for an approach to runway 36C but again performed a missed approach. The aircraft diverted to Dalaman (Turkey) for a safe landing about 80 minutes after the first go around at Antalya.
Rosaviatsia reported according to the flight data recorder the aircraft exceeded the bank angle limits reaching 40.5 degrees bank as well as the pitch angle limit reaching 39 degrees nose up while on a heading of approximately 360 degrees. In addition the aircraft slowed to 153 KIAS on a clean wing as well as oversped flaps 20 by 12.5 knots before the aircraft diverted to Dalaman after three missed approaches.
The airline reported the aircraft was approaching Antalya in deteriorating weather conditions, however, as the airfield was open there was no reason to divert to Dalaman. The first approach was aborted, the airfield closed and opened several times during the next hour, the captain attempted two more approaches when the aerodrome was open, the approaches were made in thunderstorm activity and rainfall, down- and updrafts (vertical ascending and descending air currents) and severe turbulence. After the third attempt to approach Antalya the captain made the competent decision to divert to Dalaman.
The aircraft remained on the groun in Dalaman for about 3.5 hours, then flew to Antalya and landed safely. The aircraft departed Antalya for the return flight about 2 hours after landing in Antalya.
Rosaviatsia reported according to the flight data recorder the aircraft exceeded the bank angle limits reaching 40.5 degrees bank as well as the pitch angle limit reaching 39 degrees nose up while on a heading of approximately 360 degrees. In addition the aircraft slowed to 153 KIAS on a clean wing as well as oversped flaps 20 by 12.5 knots before the aircraft diverted to Dalaman after three missed approaches.
The airline reported the aircraft was approaching Antalya in deteriorating weather conditions, however, as the airfield was open there was no reason to divert to Dalaman. The first approach was aborted, the airfield closed and opened several times during the next hour, the captain attempted two more approaches when the aerodrome was open, the approaches were made in thunderstorm activity and rainfall, down- and updrafts (vertical ascending and descending air currents) and severe turbulence. After the third attempt to approach Antalya the captain made the competent decision to divert to Dalaman.
The aircraft remained on the groun in Dalaman for about 3.5 hours, then flew to Antalya and landed safely. The aircraft departed Antalya for the return flight about 2 hours after landing in Antalya.
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i'm quite sure it's considered polite to link something instead of just copy pasting the whole article:
Incident: Azur B752 at Antalya on Jun 16th 2018, approach to stall and excessive bank angle during go arounds
also others don't ask you about what "you" wrote!
Incident: Azur B752 at Antalya on Jun 16th 2018, approach to stall and excessive bank angle during go arounds
also others don't ask you about what "you" wrote!
I think Centaurus will have taken it from the 757/767 pilot on AvHerald who points out that the 757 is easy to over-control on a go around. Pitch power coupling...
it is a reasonable deduction. There are numerous LOC accidents and upsets recorded where pilots have not managed to keep the aircraft attitude within normal parameter on go around, eg Rostov on Don. IMC features in (I think) all of them, so convective activity can be a factor in 'helping' with an upset but it will probably not have been the primary cause.
The handling pilot may well have prevented more extreme attitudes being reached but you still have to wonder how they got to the upset in the first place. If the 757 wasn't capable of operating in those conditions it wouldn't have been certified.
it is a reasonable deduction. There are numerous LOC accidents and upsets recorded where pilots have not managed to keep the aircraft attitude within normal parameter on go around, eg Rostov on Don. IMC features in (I think) all of them, so convective activity can be a factor in 'helping' with an upset but it will probably not have been the primary cause.
The handling pilot may well have prevented more extreme attitudes being reached but you still have to wonder how they got to the upset in the first place. If the 757 wasn't capable of operating in those conditions it wouldn't have been certified.
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deteriorating weather conditions, however, as the airfield was open there was no reason to divert to Dalaman
" Pitch power coupling..."
Once known as "further effect of power"?
Once known as "further effect of power"?
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according to the flight data recorder the aircraft exceeded the bank angle limits reaching 40.5 degrees bank as well as the pitch angle limit reaching 39 degrees nose up while on a heading of approximately 360 degrees. In addition the aircraft slowed to 153 KIAS on a clean wing as well as oversped flaps 20 by 12.5 knots before the aircraft diverted to Dalaman after three missed approaches.
Where have you taken the over-controlling part from?
The ADS-B data is a bit sporadic (and needs to be treated with even more caution than usual, given that it's a steam-powered B752), but at one point just after the start of the first GA it appears to show a groundspeed (not IAS/TAS) of 107 kts
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Very turbulent conditions in the vicinity of thunderstorm conditions is not uncommon. Approach criteria are often well within limits. Company I worked for had well defined and sim-practiced procedures for the likelihood. Home Base suffered, regularly, from the challenging conditions and while accepting an approach we were well prepared and rehearsed for the high chance of a GA. Extreme diversions in speed & attitude were expected until we escaped the area and we knew how to respond. Isn't it just possible that these guys actually did quite a good job ?
