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EC notice on BREXIT issued, licenses/certificates invalid

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EC notice on BREXIT issued, licenses/certificates invalid

Old 20th Dec 2018, 11:47
  #601 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Originally Posted by bringbackthe80s View Post
All of this is extremely academic, I STRONGLY doubt the MPs will let a no deal happen. Just a bunch of free news for a while, nothing to see here
You misunderstand the (Cough) 'decision making process' (Cough) of bureaucrats, politicians and weak management. The can is continually kicked down the road and ad hoc decisions are made by businesses and staff at working level on what should happen, the deadline passes with ad hoc solutions in place and the 'decision makers' say look there is already a working solution it will be disruptive to back out of that we will reluctantly support it. This is the art of blame avoidance - the politicians didn't make the decision on what to do - the ad hoc solution was developed by people who had to come up with a quick fix solution. So nobody can blame the politicians for what is happening. As the deadline approaches the politicians are less and less likely to make any meaningful decisions. Indeed, with the deadline a mere 12 weeks away it is really too late to make any decisions that require any constructive thought.

Remember these people are politicians because they can't make it in private business.
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 11:55
  #602 (permalink)  
 
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Does all this correspondence mean that an EASA licence becomes invalid on 31 March? How so? And what of aircraft certified by EASA?
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 12:00
  #603 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EastMids View Post


Indeed... quote: "...the capacity which United Kingdom air carriers will be allowed to offer is frozen at pre-Brexit levels expressed in number of flights ("frequencies")." I presume the UK will reciprocate (retaliate?), meaning 3/4 of 2019 could be no growth in terms of the overall UK-EU market.

More worryingly: "UK air carriers may... perform scheduled and non-scheduled international air transport services for passengers, combination of passengers and cargo and all-cargo services between any pair of points of which one is situated in the territory of the United Kingdom and the other one is situated in the territory of the Union"

No mention of UK carriers being able to operate intra-European services in the style offered by bmi. Likewise by reciprocation if Ryanair has any UK domestic routes left - can't remember whether it does? Maybe an impact on Stobart Air's proposed Newuay-Southend too. Possibly a problem for West Atlantic's G-reg 737s in Europe, and the SE-reg ATPs operating solely within the UK.
Happy to corrected, but if that's the case then how about all O'Leary's EI Reg aircraft based in the UK - do they have to become G Reg to fly to / from UK into the EU ?
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 12:19
  #604 (permalink)  
512
 
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Quote.

Ryanair has launched UK subsidiary for the event so domestic routes can remain to be facilitated. Depending agreement other aircraft may join its UK register to enable UK-EU flights departing from UK afterwards. Worse case and no deal emerges, then aircraft can be relocated to EU markets.
BMI sadly under NO circumstance will be able to offer intra European routes, this comes with EU membership and thus is not allowed under any foreseen agreement when Brexit is triggered.
Please can you explain how Ryanair can retain its fifth freedom rights, yet British airlines will lose theirs just because the EU says so. Don't air routes around the world come under the Chicago Convention, which the EU is not even a member?

512
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 14:12
  #605 (permalink)  
 
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Article 9 of document 843 says "Certificates of airworthiness, certificates of competency and licences issued or rendered valid by the United Kingdom and still in force shall be recognised as valid by the Member States for the purpose of the operation of air transport services by UK air carriers under this Regulation, provided that such certificates or licences were issued or rendered valid pursuant to, and in conformity with, as a minimum, the relevant international standards established under the Convention." Which, from the point of view of flight crew licenses only says to me that UK issued licenses, ratings etc., will be accepted as valid when operating for UK carriers in the EU.

Document 844 does not relate to flight crew licensing, as you say, apart from Article 5 which says: "By way of derogation from Commission Regulation (EU) No 1178/20119 and Commission Regulation (EU) No 1321/201410, the competent authorities of the Member States or the Agency, as the case may be, shall take account of the examinations taken in training organisations subject to oversight by the competent authority of the United Kingdom prior to the date of application referred to in the second sub-paragraph of Article 10(2) of this Regulation, as if they had been taken with a training organisation subject to the oversight of the competent authority of a Member State." I'm not sure what this means, nor what the "examinations taken in training organisations" could possibly be.
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Old 21st Dec 2018, 06:10
  #606 (permalink)  
 
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AW, derogation means that, although UK could become a 3rd country, it will be exempt from 1178 and 1321 and exam results shall (must) will still be recogmised as if they had been taken in an EASA country. Assume (?) this covers the ATPL papers if they have been started but not completed by march amongst others.
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Old 21st Dec 2018, 17:41
  #607 (permalink)  
 
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There appear to be many`experts` including me posting on this Prune thread.
Just remember folks, those of you who still can that is, in the years way before the UK joining the EU, UK aircraft & crews operated into Europe & vice versa, why could this not continue after the EU withdrawl.
Just remember, there is still a lot of the world out there, outside the EU & despite the prophets of doom saying otherwise, the world did not stop with the millenium, it will not stop when the UK leaves the EU.
Finally, yes the Commonwealth is still out there, try us again, you might find us all are still friends.
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Old 21st Dec 2018, 17:54
  #608 (permalink)  
 
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Thank you Kaikohe and though we were mostly unaware of it at the time, some of us are ashamed of what happened to Commonwealth farmers in 1973. Maybe we can redeem ourselves.
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Old 21st Dec 2018, 17:54
  #609 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by kaikohe76 View Post
There appear to be many`experts` including me posting on this Prune thread.
Just remember folks, those of you who still can that is, in the years way before the UK joining the EU, UK aircraft & crews operated into Europe & vice versa, why could this not continue after the EU withdrawl.
Just remember, there is still a lot of the world out there, outside the EU & despite the prophets of doom saying otherwise, the world did not stop with the millenium, it will not stop when the UK leaves the EU.
Finally, yes the Commonwealth is still out there, try us again, you might find us all are still friends.
Brexit is Brexit - the cherry picker dreamers will get their lessons learnt, its gonna to be a "lead by example" action and yes, I think its good to show the rest of EU what happens if an exit starts the mess up. So far small piece of advise: THE EU has no fear about uncontrolled exit, highly recommend to look for an EASA licence if possible.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 07:41
  #610 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 512 View Post
Please can you explain how Ryanair can retain its fifth freedom rights, yet British airlines will lose theirs just because the EU says so. Don't air routes around the world come under the Chicago Convention, which the EU is not even a member?512
You are incorrect in your assumption.
Ryanair is making changes to its operation model to ensure flights in UK under fifth freedom rights, if those rights are abolished, are maintained.
The UK AOC allows for UK flights in such case, EI AOC will then not be used on those routes.

British airlines are able to do the same, by setting up EU subsidiaries, as easyJet has done.
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Old 30th Dec 2018, 23:23
  #611 (permalink)  
 
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A question regarding Brexit and UK EASA license.

I am currently employed by a UK airline and have been told that I will be required to hold a UK license post Brexit.

Would it it be possible to change my UK license to another EASA state such as Ireland and also keep a UK license as well?
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 08:25
  #612 (permalink)  
 
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As I understand it “today”, you would have to change your UK EASA licence now for another countries EASA licence (time is very short now as it has to complete before 29 March)
then you would have to wait until 29 March then apply for a UK licence on the basis of your foreign EASA one (who knows how long that would take)
this could potentially lead to a break in service.
As I understand its not possible to have a EASA licence and a UK licence (or even apply for a UK one) until we have left EASA.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 08:51
  #613 (permalink)  
 
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I agree with the reply from SFIM. However, the CAA has said that EU licences will remain valid for the UK for at least 2 years after Brexit, so perhaps check again with your employer.
The CAA has said that those who transfer can also have a UK FCL licence after Brexit.
The FAQ on their website says:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I transfer my licence to another EASA member state, can I be issued with a UK licence after March 29 2019
Yes, this process is under review. Further advice will be added to this microsite when available.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The CAA's EU Microsite is quite well hidden.
You need to google "CAA Exit" to find the main page.

Then well down the page, buried in the text, you will find the word 'microsite' as a link, which takes you to the detailed stuff, including the FAQ

One wonders why it is so well hidden. Perhaps the CAA is concerned about losing control and revenue if the majority of pilots and organisations transfer to other member States.

There is a potential trap for you and any colleagues here. If you don't transfer you licence to another EU State and then in a few month's or years from now, your employer decides to become an EU airline (by moving their head office abroad), you will have to get a Part-FCL licence to continue to fly with them. According to current EU rules that will mean taking your exams again. And you would also need to do that if you wanted to leave your current job to fly for any EU operator. There is an article on this in the current issue of Flight Training News - and on their website. In your position I would draw that to the attention of your employer and ask them to think again.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 14:14
  #614 (permalink)  
 
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Closing date for license transfer passed?

https://info.caa.co.uk/eu-exit/commercial-pilots/

Q. When is the latest I could apply to transfer my licence to another EASA member state to get my licence in time for 29 March 2019?
A. "The CAA has no control over the issuance process of other EASA Member States, we therefore recommend that you contact the proposed NAA directly on these matters.
To enable the CAA time to complete its part in the licence transfer process, the CAA advises that application forms from the NAA need to be submitted to the CAA by January 1 2019. We will endeavour to transfer any application received after this date, but the process may not be completed by 29 March 2019."

Note that it says the forms need to be from the NAA not the applicant so that deadline is passed now.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 16:53
  #615 (permalink)  
 
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I can reassure that under current procedures, there is no break in your licensing continuity as you switch from one to the other - your current licence remains valid until the point at which you have your new licence in your hand - I had this confirmed by the CAA.
When talking about a break in service I was thinking more about company checks such as OPC and line check which will presumably have to be done again as they would be based on a different licence ??
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 09:20
  #616 (permalink)  
 
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As I understand its not possible to have a EASA licence and a UK licence (or even apply for a UK one) until we have left EASA.
It is - I hold both.

So far small piece of advise: THE EU has no fear about uncontrolled exit, highly recommend to look for an EASA licence if possible.
Outwardly no, the institutional view appears to reflect that, however internally I understand there is considerable concern about a no-deal exit and hence the proposed regulation. Many in the EC and dependant institutions have believed that the UK will never completely sever ties with Europe and indeed the UK Government has certainly given that impression since Article 50 was invoked, but a discussion I had last week with a trusted UK aviation manufacturing industry management source suggests that this political wavering might be a strategic ploy to force the hand of the EC and bring them to the negotiating table with a view to leveraging more favourable terms for the UK. From the perspective of the aerospace industry, and leaving the soft assets aside, how many UK manufactured and certified components are flying around in or hanging from EASA registered aircraft flying today and for the next many years?
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 10:06
  #617 (permalink)  
 
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Did anyone got recently response from IAA? I sent my papers at end of November and still nothing. I know it was holiday season but 20+ work days seems really long.
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Old 5th Jan 2019, 08:44
  #618 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by nebojsar View Post
Did anyone got recently response from IAA? I sent my papers at end of November and still nothing. I know it was holiday season but 20+ work days seems really long.
The IAA received my application the 10th December and had an email yesterday (5th January) from the CAA saying that they have received the form (155) from the IAA and that the turnaround time is 36 working days. I'm not sure if it's standard procedure to send this email as it was encompassed with a previous email to do with my IR(R).
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Old 5th Jan 2019, 10:38
  #619 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks for info. That means that two, two and a half calendar month will be average for endorsment in license. Just to hope that my prospect employer will wait one more month on me. I supposed to start my occ already. Most anoying thing is that i received no response from them for all this period except generic mail. I even dont know if my paperwork is ok.
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Old 5th Jan 2019, 21:37
  #620 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by slast View Post
https://info.caa.co.uk/eu-exit/commercial-pilots/

Q. When is the latest I could apply to transfer my licence to another EASA member state to get my licence in time for 29 March 2019?
A. "The CAA has no control over the issuance process of other EASA Member States, we therefore recommend that you contact the proposed NAA directly on these matters.
To enable the CAA time to complete its part in the licence transfer process, the CAA advises that application forms from the NAA need to be submitted to the CAA by January 1 2019. We will endeavour to transfer any application received after this date, but the process may not be completed by 29 March 2019."

Note that it says the forms need to be from the NAA not the applicant so that deadline is passed now.
And the f'ing UK CAA were closed from Friday 21 December 2018 until Wednesday 2 January 2019, you couldn't make it up!
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