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EC notice on BREXIT issued, licenses/certificates invalid

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EC notice on BREXIT issued, licenses/certificates invalid

Old 7th Sep 2018, 06:36
  #401 (permalink)  
 
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Precisely. The Mail reports that Grayling's move attempts to circumvent the European Commission.

Needless to say, this isn't going to happen (27 separate aviation deals). The technical details are complex, stemming from the 2002 ECJ judgement on European air transport policy, discussed here , but with the emergence of an EU external aviation policy, the Commission has established its presence in the policy field.

What this means is that Member States are no longer free agents when it comes to negotiating aviation agreements with third countries. The Commission has a right to be involved and, in certain areas – such as aviation safety – it has exclusive competence. Effectively, without the willing cooperation of the Commission, there can be no deals.
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Old 8th Sep 2018, 06:15
  #402 (permalink)  
 
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Guys we can talk all we want but no one really knows anything.
SO I would suggest the smartest move is to change your uk licence and medical asap if you can, if you can't because you're in the uk then we all hope for the best..
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 14:42
  #403 (permalink)  
 
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Christopher Booker in the Sunday Telegraph (£), 9 September 2018:

A measure of our ever more surreal times was the way in which, as Britain totters ever closer to a “no-deal” Brexit, and on the day Lord King, the former governor of the Bank of England, was warning that the Government is unprepared for its “disastrous consequences”, the lead news story was: “Calorie counts to be listed on menus”.

Theresa May may be persisting with her Chequers plan, rejected as unworkable by virtually everyone else. But even with “no deal”, we would still need to cobble together a host of what Dominic Raab, the Brexit Secretary, calls “side deals”, simply to keep much of our economy functioning.

Here are just three of the problems which, as the European Commission has repeatedly warned we will face if we fall out of the EU to become a "third country", causing a myriad legal authorisations and arrangements to lapse.
Booker then goes on to list his three illustrative problems, the first of which is:

One structure we shall drop out of is the European Common Aviation Area (ECAA), which provides the legal framework for members of the EU and neighbourhood countries to fly freely in each other's air space, subject to their complete conformity with EU aviation rules.

On becoming a "third country" we could not apply to rejoin it, to allow continued air traffic between ourselves and the EU, without lengthy negotiations; and even then only if we have established a framework of "close economic cooperation" with the EU.
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 18:46
  #404 (permalink)  
 
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If you have UK issued EASA licence, and are trying to get employment with a european airline, you may find that the job offers are few and far between.

Most european registered airlines are playing a wait and see approach to Brexit. However, they are proactively reducing employment of UK licence holders for obvious reasons. They are still interviewing and putting guys in pools, thats their legal obligation. But the amount of job offers going to UK issued Part licences has reduced significantly.
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 20:35
  #405 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by highfive View Post
Most european registered airlines are playing a wait and see approach to Brexit. However, they are proactively reducing employment of UK licence holders for obvious reasons. They are still interviewing and putting guys in pools, thats their legal obligation. But the amount of job offers going to UK issued Part licences has reduced significantly.
Is there any supporting evidence to make your claim a fact or is it just your opinion? Very curious.

PZ
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 20:42
  #406 (permalink)  
 
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papazulu

Previously posted
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Old 9th Sep 2018, 21:36
  #407 (permalink)  
 
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Wow

i wonder whether ‘non British’ licence holders flying for UK airlines might be thinking about leaving? Certainly the Brits have always employed more non Brit pilots, than the likes of AF, KLM, Lufthansa or Iberia ever employed Brits. Just how we are, I guess?

Could be some improved job opportunities coming up in the UK? Maybe even improved T&Cs, as the supply/demand ratio changes?
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Old 10th Sep 2018, 11:17
  #408 (permalink)  
 
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In a non-UK AOC I know, approximately 10% of the aircrew are UK licence holders (total 500ish). Management is considering guidance regarding SOLI for these pilots, but there is absolutely no suggestion in the current climate that anyone otherwise suitably qualified and currently holding a UK issued Part-FCL Licence would be disadvantaged in any way whatsoever for now. In fact, quite the opposite.
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Old 10th Sep 2018, 12:13
  #409 (permalink)  
 
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Reverserbucket

Maybe the management of the non-UK AOC organisation you refer to should (re)read the EU Notice to Stakeholders

Certificates issued before the withdrawal date by the competent authorities of the United Kingdom on the basis of the provisions of the Basic Regulation and its implementing rules will no longer be valid as of the withdrawal date in the EU. This concerns in particular:

Pilot licences, pilot medical certificates, certificates for pilot training organisations, certificates for aero-medical centres, certificates for flight simulation training devices, certificates for persons responsible for providing flight training, flight simulation training or assessing pilots' skill, and certificates for aero medical examiners, issued pursuant to Article 7 of the Basic Regulation;
I would think that "anyone otherwise suitably qualified and currently holding a UK issued Part-FCL Licence would (not) be disadvantaged in any way whatsoever for now" might not be the case in less than 200 days from now, following the 23.00 hrs UTC, 29 March 2019 "hard Brexit" "crash-out" that now looks to be the only option of the May Government.
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Old 10th Sep 2018, 13:17
  #410 (permalink)  
 
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highcirrus

Thanks and yes, its been (re)read a number of times since April, hence my emphasis on currently holding UK CAA issued paperwork. Following 29 March could well be a different story as you and the EC have 'suggested' in their Notice to Stakeholders however for now, there are no hold pools for UK licenced applicants nor any proactive reduction in employment of UK licence holders. Interestingly, as we get closer, there are now some quite serious concerns about the potential impact of a "no-deal" departure on remaining EU industry. SES funding is certainly being looked at closely for example and EASA are currently engaged in a review of their fees and charging mechanism - neither explicitly as a consequence of a shrinking kitty but I've heard it inferred within the Commission and the Agency.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 15:16
  #411 (permalink)  
 
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As the government prepares to publish its no-deal technical notice on aviation later this week, ADS has sent a further letter to Sabine Weyand, asking again for technical discussions between the CAA and EASA (https://www.adsgroup.org.uk..., while Sky has obtained documents that show that the CAA is 'scrambling to make the necessary preparations for a no-deal Brexit' https://news.sky.com/story/...
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 16:36
  #412 (permalink)  
 
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Can anyone tell me why UK can't just remain under EASA? Is it a requirement to have access to the single market for EASA to be part of the UK CAA?
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 16:44
  #413 (permalink)  
 
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just read up the last 2 pages
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 07:47
  #414 (permalink)  
 
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No Negan, you do not have to be a member of the single market but you do have to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. One of the British government’s red lines was that the ECJ influence in the UK ends when we leave. However, under the chequers plan they changed their mind and have now requested to remain part of EASA, whether this is agreed or not remains to be seen.
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 08:24
  #415 (permalink)  
 
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The Civil Aviation Authority has put out a statement in response to Sky News’ report that British pilots would need to be reissued with their licenses and would no longer have them recognised by European Aviation Safety Agency in the event of a no deal Brexit.

The CAA decribed the Sky report as “misleading” and dismissed the idea that UK pilot licenses would cease to be valid in the EU without a Brexit deal.

“Both commercial and private UK pilot licences would remain valid for use on UK-registered aircraft as the United Kingdom is a signatory to the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) Chicago Convention. Our licences are internationally recognised – including by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) – both now and after 29 March 2019.”
Sky’s claim that all licenses would need to be reissued “which would cost millions”was also shot down, with the CAA pointing out that this was a “purely cosmetic change” which would simply be carried out as and when pilots needed licenses to be reissued in the normal course of events. It is as daft as suggesting that the Home Office is going to reissue every single British passport the day after Brexit simply to erase the words “European Union” from the cover.

The CAA also accused Sky News of further departures from reality with their claims that there would be turbulence in its ability to provide safety oversight to the aviation industry in the event of no deal, “strongly refuting” any suggestion they were concerned and dismissing Sky as “confused”.
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 13:32
  #416 (permalink)  
 
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Negan

Outside the EEA there is no possibility of the UK gaining associate membership of EASA and, as detailed in this piece, the best we can hope for is a "Working Arrangement". This will, of course, require full regulatory alignment (including ECJ compliance).

Further valuable reading here.
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 21:54
  #417 (permalink)  
 
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Just seen this.

The second set of risk assessments are also expected to touch on security concerns, with papers expected on firearms and precursor drugs. But a paper on aviation that had been anticipated – amid warnings that planes could be grounded in an extreme scenario – is not due to appear.
So something has delayed a key technical notice around aviation that is urgent and needs to help the aviation industry plan for a no-deal. Ye Gods, why are these overpaid and deeply unimpressive idiots in charge of such an important decision
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Old 13th Sep 2018, 07:37
  #418 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by highcirrus View Post
Negan

Outside the EEA there is no possibility of the UK gaining associate membership of EASA and, as detailed in this piece, the best we can hope for is a "Working Arrangement". This will, of course, require full regulatory alignment (including ECJ compliance).

Further valuable reading here.

thanks for the the link highcirrus, finally a commentator who actually understands the complexities.

Im guessing the papers on aviation will be released sometime over the Christmas holiday period in the hope no one will notice. What are other UK based airlines doing in regards to Brexit planning? EasyJet seem to be the only ones implementing anything.
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Old 13th Sep 2018, 09:07
  #419 (permalink)  
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We can join the ECAA and that solves most immediate issues at a stroke.

WWW
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Old 13th Sep 2018, 09:32
  #420 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wee Weasley Welshman View Post
We can join the ECAA and that solves most immediate issues at a stroke.

WWW
So why haven't we?
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