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EC notice on BREXIT issued, licenses/certificates invalid

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EC notice on BREXIT issued, licenses/certificates invalid

Old 16th Aug 2018, 13:48
  #361 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by superflanker View Post
But of course, the EU is unlikely to accept the UK "cherry picking", and if they don't sign the withrawal agreement (with the North Ireland backstop, etc.) the likely outcome it's a no-deal with the UK being out of every EU agency. So if we don't see a change in the negotiations (by the way, they are sitting today but nothing new is expected), UK will be out of EASA by April 2019.
Perhaps the EU let's UK license holders transfer to an EASA countrie beyond this date, nobody knows.
I dont see why EASA membership needs to be tied to any other deal. For example the UAE follow EASA Regulation through their working arrangement with EASA and the GCAA changed their entire Licensing system to align with EASA. OK they are not a full voting member but to all intents they are a part of EASA, so would it really be such a stretch for the UK to remain a member?
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 14:42
  #362 (permalink)  
 
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and it’s also been made very clear “cherry picking” will not be accepted.
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 06:36
  #363 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BAengineer View Post
I dont see why EASA membership needs to be tied to any other deal. For example the UAE follow EASA Regulation through their working arrangement with EASA and the GCAA changed their entire Licensing system to align with EASA. OK they are not a full voting member but to all intents they are a part of EASA, so would it really be such a stretch for the UK to remain a member?
"Following a regulation" and "being a part of" do not seem to me to be the same thing.... And GCAA are not a part of EASA at all!
Moreover, although no many and not too much significant, there are differences between EASA and GCAA regulations.
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 12:17
  #364 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bidule View Post
"Following a regulation" and "being a part of" do not seem to me to be the same thing.... And GCAA are not a part of EASA at all!
Moreover, although no many and not too much significant, there are differences between EASA and GCAA regulations.
But currently there are no differences between the UK regulatory system and EASA - the UK is just asking that that situation continues.

But the ball is in the EU's court.
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 13:08
  #365 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BAengineer View Post
But the ball is in the EU's court.
That’s the problem
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 13:13
  #366 (permalink)  
 
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But the ball is in the EU's court.
Whilst I think your cliche massively oversimplifies a very complex negotiation, I do I agree that's where we seem to be at this point in time.

The problem, of course, is that many of us (on both sides of the channel) are wondering if the EU will just quietly put the ball in their pocket and casually stroll off the court.
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 13:23
  #367 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Old Fat One View Post
Whilst I think your cliche massively oversimplifies a very complex negotiation, I do I agree that's where we seem to be at this point in time.

The problem, of course, is that many of us (on both sides of the channel) are wondering if the EU will just quietly put the ball in their pocket and casually stroll off the court.
I'm sure the EU politicians would love to do that. But the damage it would do to the aviation sector within the EU would be immense, so I'm hopeful that cooler heads will prevail.
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 13:34
  #368 (permalink)  
 
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BAengineer, I disagree.

If I may, using a similar style from your previous post:

How many times must it be repeated. The UK are leaving the EU and any associated privileges and agencies. If they UK want to maintain a close and special relationship and decide to stay within EASA (great!), then it must first understand its membership requirements and then accept the “whole” package: Exactly as Switzerland or Norway have done for example. A fudge (“cherry picking”) to only accept some requirements just because the UK don’t like some others is simply not acceptable - it would undermine the integrity and principle of common regulations and compliance.

It is now up to the UK to decide whether they want to remain or not.

The ball is entirely in the UK's court.
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 13:52
  #369 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BONES_ View Post
BAengineer, I disagree.

If I may, using a similar style from your previous post:

How many times must it be repeated. The UK are leaving the EU and any associated privileges and agencies. If they UK want to maintain a close and special relationship and decide to stay within EASA (great!), then it must first understand its membership requirements and then accept the “whole” package: Exactly as Switzerland or Norway have done for example. A fudge (“cherry picking”) to only accept some requirements just because the UK don’t like some others is simply not acceptable - it would undermine the integrity and principle of common regulations and compliance.

It is now up to the UK to decide whether they want to remain or not.

The ball is entirely in the UK's court.

Unfortunately the UK does not know which court the ball is in or what the ball looks like. Utter chaos on all fronts!


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Old 17th Aug 2018, 13:57
  #370 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BONES_ View Post
BAengineer, I disagree.

If I may, using a similar style from your previous post:

How many times must it be repeated. The UK are leaving the EU and any associated privileges and agencies. If they UK want to maintain a close and special relationship and decide to stay within EASA (great!), then it must first understand its membership requirements and then accept the “whole” package: Exactly as Switzerland or Norway have done for example. A fudge (“cherry picking”) to only accept some requirements just because the UK don’t like some others is simply not acceptable - it would undermine the integrity and principle of common regulations and compliance.

It is now up to the UK to decide whether they want to remain or not.

The ball is entirely in the UK's court.
Well you cite Switzerland - they have done exactly what you are claiming cannot be done. They are not in the EU, not in the Single Market and not in the Customs Union. Their relationship with the EU is based on a very specific set of bilateral agreements. So we see that the EU are open to a fudge or 'cherry picking' as you call it - Otherwise the EU would have done exactly what you suggest and say it is full EU membership or nothing.

Serve is returned and the ball is back in the EU's court..
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 14:55
  #371 (permalink)  
 
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Unfortunately for the EU, the ball is worth around 40 billion euros, and is presently on our side of the court. The EU has quietly made 'cherry picking' exceptions before when it suited Commission politics, but is playing hard-ball at present to discourage anyone else from daring to leave. Do they expect UK to recognise EASA licences after Brexit and KLM be allowed to land at LHR when EASA licences issued the day before to UK operators do not allow BA to land at AMS? Wait and see.
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 15:21
  #372 (permalink)  
 
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For all we know, the EU could have already planned a no-deal scenario and getting ready for it.

You are right, that ball is worth about 40bn Euros. Long term probably even more considering future trades, goods and services: The EU could be losing access to a 65+ million people market; however the UK to a 450+ million people market. Personally, I would not be defiant but very careful - and I honestly think both side should be.

PS: Out of a crashed out Brexit, we ALL got so much to lose but very little to gain (if anything!). However - but i might be wrong - I feel Britain would loose the most: And to me it’s a rather sad prospect.

Last edited by BONES_; 17th Aug 2018 at 19:32.
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 15:27
  #373 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fitter2 View Post
Unfortunately for the EU, the ball is worth around 40 billion euros, and is presently on our side of the court. The EU has quietly made 'cherry picking' exceptions before when it suited Commission politics, but is playing hard-ball at present to discourage anyone else from daring to leave. Do they expect UK to recognise EASA licences after Brexit and KLM be allowed to land at LHR when EASA licences issued the day before to UK operators do not allow BA to land at AMS? Wait and see.
Well yes, because on the day after a hard Brexit an EASA licence, AOC, MRO whatever, will still have a full regulatory rule making structure behind it, but a UK issued one won't because the CAA does not have competence / capability in many areas.
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 15:29
  #374 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BONES_ View Post
and it’s also been made very clear “cherry picking” will not be accepted.
Problem is... surely ANY single thing that could be negotiated could be viewed as a "cherry". Thus the EU are making it pretty clear that their intent is hard exit or no exit.
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 16:06
  #375 (permalink)  
 
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The ball might be 40 billion dollars, which is not all that much compared to the over 1 trillion in trade germany alone does, and certainly less than Japan-EU trade deal offers, an trade deal with a country which is a tiny island somewhere afar from europe, same as the UK.

And although switzerland has a unique deal, that same deal was on offer to the UK and was turned down by the UK, since it is of course based on the 4 freedoms including the freedom of movement. Yes, the swiss voted to have that particular freedom reduced, and that was quietly dropped by them again after it was made very clear that switzerland would lose complete access to everything EU if they insisted on that, which is of course their free choice to do.

Do they expect UK to recognise EASA licences after Brexit and KLM be allowed to land at LHR when EASA licences issued the day before to UK operators do not allow BA to land at AMS?
Actually, no, they don't. Not because of licenses, because EU licenses will still be based on EU law, unlike UK ones (and if any UK license/passport states EU regs it is clearly invalid), but because the UK will not be part of the EU-Open Sky agreement anymore, and therefore any and all flight rights between the UK and the EU have to be renegotiated. But if KLM is really afraid of losing a hand full destinations or rather BA losing quite a few in each of 27 different states, is of course a different matter.
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 16:41
  #376 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capt Pit Bull View Post
Problem is... surely ANY single thing that could be negotiated could be viewed as a "cherry". Thus the EU are making it pretty clear that their intent is hard exit or no exit.
Since we've never said what we want it's a bit hard for them to make us an offer I guess.................
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 20:30
  #377 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capt Pit Bull View Post
Problem is... surely ANY single thing that could be negotiated could be viewed as a "cherry". Thus the EU are making it pretty clear that their intent is hard exit or no exit.
No. No they're not. The EU has been waiting 2 years for the UK to decide what it wants. We're still waiting. The UK needs to sort its own house out and decide on a position, then we might actually get somewhere.
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 20:59
  #378 (permalink)  
 
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Both FR and U2 have no published schedule of flights after 31st of March...............
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 21:23
  #379 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 4468 View Post
Is it just me, or do a fair number of these Brexit bashers appear to be non UK resident?

Why do they care???
I care as I unfortunately have a UK issued ATPL(through no fault of my own). And this entire thing is a major pain in my backside.
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Old 18th Aug 2018, 01:23
  #380 (permalink)  
 
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The Government is to release Brexit no-deal emergency plans next Thursday, 23 August, so maybe things might become clearer following publication. However, the informed reader will already have accurate information as to the various catastrophes awaiting, in particular the Aerospace and Airline Industries, in the event of a crash-out, at 23.00 hrs on 29 March 2019.

Last edited by highcirrus; 18th Aug 2018 at 01:36.
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