EC notice on BREXIT issued, licenses/certificates invalid
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Well, as i have have heard first hand in one of his visits around europe and the uk from Mr. Barnier that indeed both the norway model and the swiss way are on the table and have been both very directly and robustly declined by the UK (as, of course, they include free movement), i do believe it is somewhat reaking of project fear to say that any deal with the UK has to be more restricting than those two, but i am sure you have some links to prove your view. What the EU can not offer is any deal that is better than the existing ones. Of course, both Norway and Switzerland have border posts and controls, something that both sides do not want at the irish border and which is a big issue.
And it is absolutely fine to adjust any existing deal once the technology is actually there, however, Brexit is not happening at some unknown point in the future, it is happening now, we are already in the transition period which will end March of next year if no deal has been ratified by each and every parliament of the 28 states. A process which does indeed takes quite some time bit is of course required in a democratic process.
I realise that there has been some editing of this thread, and this post was a reply to a post by Brexiteers who, funny enough, states his location is in the western part of germany.
And it is absolutely fine to adjust any existing deal once the technology is actually there, however, Brexit is not happening at some unknown point in the future, it is happening now, we are already in the transition period which will end March of next year if no deal has been ratified by each and every parliament of the 28 states. A process which does indeed takes quite some time bit is of course required in a democratic process.
I realise that there has been some editing of this thread, and this post was a reply to a post by Brexiteers who, funny enough, states his location is in the western part of germany.
Last edited by Denti; 24th Jun 2018 at 17:18.
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Airport Certification
This link shows the UK airport certificates , set to become invalid on 30th March 2019 and which will need to be reissued under new UK legislation about to be passed. The new European Union (Withdrawal) Act embraces the EU acquis and scoops up all the Directives and Regulations from the EU and makes them domestic UK law, in a new category of law called Retained EU Law. In particular, new Article 68 will apply. This law will give UK the legal basis to certify these airports for domestic use but without EU recognition, they can't be used internationally. They WILL be confined to domestic traffic.
Hopefully, the UK Government will be on top of the situation and realise that a "crash out" Hard Brexit would make negotiation for airport recognition a little problematical. Fingers crossed that a Withdrawal Agreement can be finalised at the upcoming European Council on 27/28 June.
Hopefully, the UK Government will be on top of the situation and realise that a "crash out" Hard Brexit would make negotiation for airport recognition a little problematical. Fingers crossed that a Withdrawal Agreement can be finalised at the upcoming European Council on 27/28 June.
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This link shows the UK airport certificates , set to become invalid on 30th March 2019 and which will need to be reissued under new UK legislation about to be passed. The new European Union (Withdrawal) Act embraces the EU acquis and scoops up all the Directives and Regulations from the EU and makes them domestic UK law, in a new category of law called Retained EU Law. In particular, new Article 68 will apply. This law will give UK the legal basis to certify these airports for domestic use but without EU recognition, they can't be used internationally. They WILL be confined to domestic traffic.
Hopefully, the UK Government will be on top of the situation and realise that a "crash out" Hard Brexit would make negotiation for airport recognition a little problematical. Fingers crossed that a Withdrawal Agreement can be finalised at the upcoming European Council on 27/28 June.
Hopefully, the UK Government will be on top of the situation and realise that a "crash out" Hard Brexit would make negotiation for airport recognition a little problematical. Fingers crossed that a Withdrawal Agreement can be finalised at the upcoming European Council on 27/28 June.
Does this mean that EU and possibly UK fleets will be uninsured to operate to uk airfields from international destinations perchance?
Last edited by VinRouge; 25th Jun 2018 at 14:35.
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Hopefully, the UK Government will be on top of the situation and realise that a "crash out" Hard Brexit would make negotiation for airport recognition a little problematical. Fingers crossed that a Withdrawal Agreement can be finalised at the upcoming European Council on 27/28 June.
The new European Union (Withdrawal) Act embraces the EU acquis and scoops up all the Directives and Regulations from the EU and makes them domestic UK law, in a new category of law called Retained EU Law. In particular, new Article 68 will apply. This law will give UK the legal basis to certify these airports for domestic use but without EU recognition, they can't be used internationally. They WILL be confined to domestic traffic.
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...or is this only a negotiation tactic?
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In the absence of a Withdrawal Agreement and a subsequent Transition Period, it will not be possible for EASA to enter into talks with the UK CAA to secure the optimum outcome, a Bilateral Aviation Safety Agreement (BASA). Hence UK airports will remain closed to all EU traffic immediately post-Brexit (and other blocs in the absence of similar BASAs). If anyone is looking for signs of "common sense" from UK's present "government" watch closely the failure of Theresa May & Co to present coherent proposals for an Agreement in Brussels this week on 27/28 June. EU may either pull out of talks right afterwards, reckoning a hopeless case, or keep things lurching onwards to November 2018, to give EU Stakeholders more time to prepare for Armageddon at 23.00 hrs UTC (00.00 CET) 29/30 March 2019. In whatever event, it looks likely that the 70 European Research Group (ERG) ultra-right UK MPs have control and are steering the nation to disaster. Prepare to hunker down fellow professionals.
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Dr Richard North writes today specifically about Heathrow and the effect of a "no deal" Brexit
I'm hoping for a miracle and the "government" at last waking up to UK retaining EEA membership through EFTA. All these problems would then melt away.
Then, there is not only the EASA aerodrome certification to consider. There are also the issues of safety certification of air traffic management and air navigation systems, where mutual recognition is required, and no agreements will be in place if the UK leaves the EU without a deal. Thus, even if it was theoretically possible for EU-based aircraft to land at Heathrow, that is not practically possible without the use of air traffic management and air navigation systems.
On top of this, there are the wider issues of open skies agreements and slot allocations, which also control commercial access to airports such as Heathrow.
Putting the fragmented areas together, it is very hard to see how, in the context of a "no deal" Brexit, aviation agreements with the EU can survive. There is bound to be a very substantial effect on European traffic and, because EU standards are linked with the US and others through bilateral agreements and working arrangements, transatlantic and Asian traffic may also be affected.
There is nothing, of course, that cannot be negotiated with the EU, but in the light of what appear to be deteriorating relations and with no Withdrawal Agreement in sight, the possibility of a "no deal" Brexit cannot be rules out. That would almost certainly bring international traffic at Heathrow (and all other UK airports) to a complete halt.
Getting the airport back in operation though would not be that simple. There is not one agreement to deal with, but a host of issues, including the highly technical safety issues, which require formal procedures to resolve. One would see pressure for emergency action but, if the EU stands its ground, it could be several months before full functionality is restored.
After such a break in operations, and the certainty that UK businesses will be looking elsewhere, it would be unwise to expect traffic volumes be automatically restored. Reduced trade volumes will affect freight and business travellers, while uncertainty over visas and freedom of movement will undoubtedly affect tourism.
On top of this, there are the wider issues of open skies agreements and slot allocations, which also control commercial access to airports such as Heathrow.
Putting the fragmented areas together, it is very hard to see how, in the context of a "no deal" Brexit, aviation agreements with the EU can survive. There is bound to be a very substantial effect on European traffic and, because EU standards are linked with the US and others through bilateral agreements and working arrangements, transatlantic and Asian traffic may also be affected.
There is nothing, of course, that cannot be negotiated with the EU, but in the light of what appear to be deteriorating relations and with no Withdrawal Agreement in sight, the possibility of a "no deal" Brexit cannot be rules out. That would almost certainly bring international traffic at Heathrow (and all other UK airports) to a complete halt.
Getting the airport back in operation though would not be that simple. There is not one agreement to deal with, but a host of issues, including the highly technical safety issues, which require formal procedures to resolve. One would see pressure for emergency action but, if the EU stands its ground, it could be several months before full functionality is restored.
After such a break in operations, and the certainty that UK businesses will be looking elsewhere, it would be unwise to expect traffic volumes be automatically restored. Reduced trade volumes will affect freight and business travellers, while uncertainty over visas and freedom of movement will undoubtedly affect tourism.
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There is going to be effects that nobody envisaged.
Some of them such as current EU trade agreements being renegotiated/cancelled as the carrot has gone have been mentioned but pooh poohed by those that are anti Brexit.
I too live in the EU and its not mentioned locally either. They are told by Brussels everything is going to be great nothing to worry about and the media are very selective what they report.
I can think of several Eu airlines that are kept out of bankruptcy by UK traffic. And they really don't have enough cash reserves to last a couple of weeks never mind a month at the beginning of the season especially if nobody has been booking over the winter.
Its going to effect different countries in different ways, how survivable that is I really have no clue. No UK tourists and a substantially reduced market for agricultural product which is time limited before it rots will be national crisis for some. Other countries they won't notice the difference for months or unless the others cause the ECB problems.
29th of March is a nasty date. It kills the summer season from crop growing to tourist bookings for 2019 what ever happens.
To be honest I already think it to late to sort out.
Some of them such as current EU trade agreements being renegotiated/cancelled as the carrot has gone have been mentioned but pooh poohed by those that are anti Brexit.
I too live in the EU and its not mentioned locally either. They are told by Brussels everything is going to be great nothing to worry about and the media are very selective what they report.
I can think of several Eu airlines that are kept out of bankruptcy by UK traffic. And they really don't have enough cash reserves to last a couple of weeks never mind a month at the beginning of the season especially if nobody has been booking over the winter.
Its going to effect different countries in different ways, how survivable that is I really have no clue. No UK tourists and a substantially reduced market for agricultural product which is time limited before it rots will be national crisis for some. Other countries they won't notice the difference for months or unless the others cause the ECB problems.
29th of March is a nasty date. It kills the summer season from crop growing to tourist bookings for 2019 what ever happens.
To be honest I already think it to late to sort out.
Commission to EU27: Prepare airports for a ‘no-deal’ Brexit
From Politico.eu
https://www.politico.eu/article/airl...o-deal-brexit/
JAS
Filip Cornelis, the director of aviation at the Commission’s transport department, advised countries to be ready for the possibility of the U.K. crashing out of the EU without a deal on March 29 next year, saying that they should consider their customs handling capacity and prepare for impacts on security, market access, safety regulations and passenger rights.
JAS
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UK Licence Conversion
A couple of days ago I picked up in conversation with a former colleague that two UK organizations he knows of (major players in the industry) are requiring personnel to convert to non-UK EASA licences. He tells me that there is now a steady flow to swop existing UK tickets for Irish ones, at €600 a go, in anticipation of a hard Brexit.
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The British 'government' is unlikely to have grasped the most elementary of impacts to aviation which is already befalling them. Airbus have long wanted to move the next gen wings to Germany or France - now they have to. Rolls Royce was very clear before the referendum that they would not invest further in the UK and are shifting expertise to Germany - the 4000 lays offs in Derby are Brexit not efficiency related. As an FI in conti Europe I await the geniuses Fox/Davis/Johnson to pull a miracle from the hat at the last minute - but not holding my breath.
Still at least the Brexiteers of Wales, Derby, Sunderland etc are getting their just desserts. Pity we are all going down the tube with them into Germany circa 1930's.
Still at least the Brexiteers of Wales, Derby, Sunderland etc are getting their just desserts. Pity we are all going down the tube with them into Germany circa 1930's.
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Are we seeing a pattern here guys?
Still feeling happy holding a UK Part-FCL LIcence?
British Airways’ parent company, IAG, has astonished the aviation market by launching a new Vienna-based subsidiary airline with less than three weeks’ notice before flights begin.
Assuming that somebody knows that the piece of paper is needed,
As said above, money talks, VERY loudly.