Has the glamour gone...
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And, get a spam can that lacks all the safety and redundancy of a Part 25 jet airplane. Those spam cans are falling out of the clouds on a regular basis.
N4790P
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Since the 1980s, the class of billionaires, bankers, and owners has declared a war on workers all across the world, including airline pilots. Time to wake up.
Time to get organized more with our pilots unions. In terms of what used to paid to pilots, where do you think all the money has gone? Just look at the profits. Through union support and strikes we can recapture some of the glory lost. With our unions, we have the power, if we stand fast and unite. Imagine in Europe, the power, if all the pilots unions decided to hold a strike for one day, to protest our common concerns. Not easy but not impossible.
Pilots have seen their salaries drop while executive bonuses rise.
( Since 2008, the wealth of the richest 1% has been growing at an average of 6% a year – much faster than the 3% growth in wealth of the remaining 99% of the world’s population. Should that continue, the top 1% would hold wealth equating to $305tn (£216.5tn) – up from $140tn today. )
Time to get organized more with our pilots unions. In terms of what used to paid to pilots, where do you think all the money has gone? Just look at the profits. Through union support and strikes we can recapture some of the glory lost. With our unions, we have the power, if we stand fast and unite. Imagine in Europe, the power, if all the pilots unions decided to hold a strike for one day, to protest our common concerns. Not easy but not impossible.
Pilots have seen their salaries drop while executive bonuses rise.
( Since 2008, the wealth of the richest 1% has been growing at an average of 6% a year – much faster than the 3% growth in wealth of the remaining 99% of the world’s population. Should that continue, the top 1% would hold wealth equating to $305tn (£216.5tn) – up from $140tn today. )
Last edited by Jimmy Hoffa Rocks; 9th Apr 2018 at 13:49.
Jimmy,
More like the real money has gone to the customers, fares are a fraction of what they were in the “golden age”. If anything has changed since the end of the Cold War, it’s making consumer king. We want more and cheaper; making that happen has lifted a billion people in Asia out of poverty.
The “old heads” heads at Eastern Airlines claimed, “jets ruined everything”. Gone were the days of a non-stop NYC-MIA, 24 hours layover and back, 4 times a month. My first corporate job, they used to take the DC-3 to Veradero Beach, spend days at a “meeting” and return. With the Sabreliner, it was a dat trip to HOU.
GF
More like the real money has gone to the customers, fares are a fraction of what they were in the “golden age”. If anything has changed since the end of the Cold War, it’s making consumer king. We want more and cheaper; making that happen has lifted a billion people in Asia out of poverty.
The “old heads” heads at Eastern Airlines claimed, “jets ruined everything”. Gone were the days of a non-stop NYC-MIA, 24 hours layover and back, 4 times a month. My first corporate job, they used to take the DC-3 to Veradero Beach, spend days at a “meeting” and return. With the Sabreliner, it was a dat trip to HOU.
GF
The golden years from the early jet age might be long gone but there must be at least more aviation jobs than ever in history today. Including in remote places that never had seen proper airline services before.
Praise our times before drones take over the business - and all business.
Praise our times before drones take over the business - and all business.
If the so-called Golden Age was a time when passengers paid a fortune to ensure pilots could enjoy a well-paid sinecure, then that time has indeed ended.
The fact is that pilots still get paid well, even at the locos, when compared with other professions who work far harder for far less.
Is it glamorous? I don't feel glamorous on the flightdeck unless I'm wearing my heels, but is that in the slightest bit important?? If you became a pilot because of perceived glamour, you're not my cup of tea.
The fact is that pilots still get paid well, even at the locos, when compared with other professions who work far harder for far less.
Is it glamorous? I don't feel glamorous on the flightdeck unless I'm wearing my heels, but is that in the slightest bit important?? If you became a pilot because of perceived glamour, you're not my cup of tea.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My side of the story, started in college, lived rent free in a farm house and when the farmer needs extra hands during harvest times we provided the manual labor. Our little town put in an airport and the FBO asked if I would mow the runways and such, and maybe pump so gas. He then offered to teach me to fly, love at first touch down. From there to the military and then a large 121 operation. Was a minimum of around twelve or more years to the left seat. Then that company went under, next came a offer to fly for a rich Saudi. Spent better part of three years flying the world as part observer of the rich and not so famous. Then an upstart logistics company, with a couple of classic 747's. Surprise, I finished my career there.
Early on it was all basic flying skills, a lot of hand flying and such. As the years went by, we became key board operators, load the route, taxi out, lift off, gear up, auto pilot on. Program the decent and confirm the approach is loaded on final, runway insight, click the autopilot off and land. Frequently I would hand fly up to flight level and maybe for another five or ten minutes, all the while enjoying a hot cup of tea. When I request the autopilot engaged you could feel the rest of the crew let out a breath. I enjoyed the art of hand flying.
Today, I have an old Champ in the hangar and enjoy flying once more. Did have to add some modern stuff, just to meet the minimums, but would love just to get back to needle ball and airspeed. Now that is flying that I enjoy.
Early on it was all basic flying skills, a lot of hand flying and such. As the years went by, we became key board operators, load the route, taxi out, lift off, gear up, auto pilot on. Program the decent and confirm the approach is loaded on final, runway insight, click the autopilot off and land. Frequently I would hand fly up to flight level and maybe for another five or ten minutes, all the while enjoying a hot cup of tea. When I request the autopilot engaged you could feel the rest of the crew let out a breath. I enjoyed the art of hand flying.
Today, I have an old Champ in the hangar and enjoy flying once more. Did have to add some modern stuff, just to meet the minimums, but would love just to get back to needle ball and airspeed. Now that is flying that I enjoy.
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Has the glamor gone? Obviously. But as a gig it ain't that bad. I bid reserve, fly an average of 30 hours a month and bank 20K a month. How many professions are there where you can work that little and make that much without even taking your job home with you? Is it like rock star Pan Am 707 captains back in 1965? Hell no! But there are worse gigs for sure.
I flew for forty years mil/civ before taking marginally early retirement. I could have gone on for a couple more years but the perpetual early starts or late night finishes were beginning to take their toll not to mention the constant huge changes in SOP's which had become really aggravating by the end. I'm not sure it was ever glamorous but then I never flew for a large flagship carrier. What I do know is that T's and C's were under constant attack and that some of the games played by mangement are an absolute disgrace. Would I do it the same again - no. Would I do it again knowing what I know now - maybe because I would hopefully not make the same mistakes and choices again !
Just wait for flags of convenience and cheap "foreign" labour to take over, then let's talk about "Golden Age".
Happened in shipping, aviation next?
Per
Happened in shipping, aviation next?
Per
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ehhh... Where do you actually get "glamour" these days? Banking? Medicine? Engineering? Tech? I think many of us are in a bit of a "bubble" when it comes to aviation. The decline in T&C's are present in most industries these days unfortunately. I for one do not envy my friends and family who has to deal with overtime, office politics and the dreaded (well for me anyway) 9-5 rutine! Before aviation I got to be part of all that and I will never ever go back if I can avoid it!
With that said, I can only recommend that everyone joins a union and stay active in it. I'm all for us fighting for better or preserved conditions. By the sound of it, a lot of people in this forum seem to be caught in really bad jobs out there...
I'm in Low cost (europe) with 15 years of flying experience and I still love my job. I'm well aware of the work/life balance issues that goes with it, but for me it's still very much worth my time and effort!
If you find yourself in a position where you have lost the love of the job or the industry, there is only one thing to do: ACT! You don't like the T&C's? You hate you colleagues? You hate nightstops? Do something! Get a new job or participate in the union work!
It will be a win/win for everyone! Your colleagues will be free of all the eternal moaning in the cruise and you just might find the spark that made you start in the first place! I know it's easier said than done, but what is the alternative?
I sometimes wonder if this mismatch between the "glamour" vs. "Reality" of being a pilot is due to social media, unrealistic propaganda by the flight schools or just an overall trend in our society. I mean, did anyone who did just 2 seconds of research really think that being a pilot contains any sort of "glamour"? It could be interesting to get a proper definition of that. It would certainly put things into perspective!
I know I might take a lot of Flak for being "too positive" but I really don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be...
With that said, I can only recommend that everyone joins a union and stay active in it. I'm all for us fighting for better or preserved conditions. By the sound of it, a lot of people in this forum seem to be caught in really bad jobs out there...
I'm in Low cost (europe) with 15 years of flying experience and I still love my job. I'm well aware of the work/life balance issues that goes with it, but for me it's still very much worth my time and effort!
If you find yourself in a position where you have lost the love of the job or the industry, there is only one thing to do: ACT! You don't like the T&C's? You hate you colleagues? You hate nightstops? Do something! Get a new job or participate in the union work!
It will be a win/win for everyone! Your colleagues will be free of all the eternal moaning in the cruise and you just might find the spark that made you start in the first place! I know it's easier said than done, but what is the alternative?
I sometimes wonder if this mismatch between the "glamour" vs. "Reality" of being a pilot is due to social media, unrealistic propaganda by the flight schools or just an overall trend in our society. I mean, did anyone who did just 2 seconds of research really think that being a pilot contains any sort of "glamour"? It could be interesting to get a proper definition of that. It would certainly put things into perspective!
I know I might take a lot of Flak for being "too positive" but I really don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be...
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: fairly close to the colonial capitol
Age: 55
Posts: 1,693
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Since the 1980s, the class of billionaires, bankers, and owners has declared a war on workers all across the world, including airline pilots. Time to wake up.
More like the real money has gone to the customers, fares are a fraction of what they were in the “golden age”.
However at the same time, comparatively little of that "real money" in the form of substantial increases in pay, training, and benefits trickled down from on high, with most of it being the actual "real money" we should be speaking of, that which went towards corporate profits and the shareholders, and into the pockets of upper management.
Our industry has never been full of high profit margin enterprises, but the income differences between those paper pushers on high and the folks that actually do the work is and has been since the 1980s, dichotomous.
Put succinctly, unfettered greed has gone from a shameful pursuit to one to be (apparently) proud of.
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Talk to doctors -- they say almost exactly the same thing about practicing medicine. There's a larger trend at play here. Not sure I can name it precisely, but aviation is among many other professions that just ain't as fun as they used to be.
.......he told me that he really was in the golden age in the 60's and 70's- after that, it stopped being fun for him...
Recall a couple of the ex WW II Captains reckoning that they had the best of it - after they stopped being shot at of course - in the early days of the present civil aviation. One then bemoaned the fact that in his youth the long distant Express train railway drivers were the Golden Boys, revered by one and all, but now they turned up in greasy overalls carrying their lunch in a tin box. That's going to happen to us, he said.
Has it ?
N4790P
his youth the long distant Express train railway drivers were the Golden Boys, revered by one and all, but now they turned up in greasy overalls carrying their lunch in a tin box. That's going to happen to us, he said.
Has it ?
Has it ?
As for the rest of it, and comments along the lines of how being a commercial pilot it is compared with other jobs...well I can see how things like in flight crew rest might make the job seem great compared with working a long day in the Square Mile but I’ve yet to see any evidence of glamour when I see colleagues reappear to from the crew bunks or cabin rest seat in the early hours of the morning...I must be flying with the wrong people......I guess some of the Instagram stars might manage it....
Good job...for some, yep....”Glamour” ..well even the celebs don’t generally dress up to go flying in F class these days, so you must be joking....
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wor Yerm
Age: 68
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The glamour went the moment airlines believed they could make a few pennies more by cutting. By cutting I mean price, costs and service. Couple that with squeezing staff by getting them to do more hours for less pay and little or no additiional benefits. That started 30 years ago or more. But if you want to see wher the process started, look at the railways.
Travelling on an aircraft is just a means of transport like a bus, ship or train. The current bunch of muppets in marketing (identified by long pointy brown shoes, miss-matched expensive designer labels and obligatory pony tail) wouldn’t know what service is if they received it.
Cull the chief executives, tell the greedy shareholders to do one and sack the marketing gurus and then we might stand a chance. Only by doing that will flying on an airline be slightly less unpleasant than standing in a queue at an amusement park. And another thing to be disposed of is so called “VIP access”. When shaven headed, tee shirt wearing, bucket’n’spade travelling customers are in the alleged hospitality suites you know the world has gone mad. It’s now worth paying NOT to go into these places to avoid contact with the unwashed.
PM
Travelling on an aircraft is just a means of transport like a bus, ship or train. The current bunch of muppets in marketing (identified by long pointy brown shoes, miss-matched expensive designer labels and obligatory pony tail) wouldn’t know what service is if they received it.
Cull the chief executives, tell the greedy shareholders to do one and sack the marketing gurus and then we might stand a chance. Only by doing that will flying on an airline be slightly less unpleasant than standing in a queue at an amusement park. And another thing to be disposed of is so called “VIP access”. When shaven headed, tee shirt wearing, bucket’n’spade travelling customers are in the alleged hospitality suites you know the world has gone mad. It’s now worth paying NOT to go into these places to avoid contact with the unwashed.
PM
If you still want the old style big impression you can still look for pilot jobs in developing countries. Have the FO carry your trolley through the hotel lobby six feet behind you, have wife and kids and grandma travel with you, wear handmade scrambled eggs stitching on the cap, have a smoke on the flight deck and such.
Maybe today's times in fact got better?
Maybe today's times in fact got better?
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: s e england
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The old saying: 'if you think that something is glamorous, you don't know enough about it'
Glamour is always attributed to times past, never today. My background is 45 years in shipping. It often feels that 'it was better in the old days', but I bet that those living 'in the old days' felt exactly the same about their predecessors.
Glamour is always attributed to times past, never today. My background is 45 years in shipping. It often feels that 'it was better in the old days', but I bet that those living 'in the old days' felt exactly the same about their predecessors.