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'Plane crash' at Nepal's Kathmandu airport

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'Plane crash' at Nepal's Kathmandu airport

Old 12th Mar 2018, 19:25
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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No mention of weather in the conversation, given that there were thunderstorms in the vicinity.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 19:48
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Still uncertain the direction ultimately at the end?
Did they actually get all the way downwind and come back southward to Rway 20 ?

Or were they still maneuvering northward from the original 20degree track?
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 19:51
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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That's a whole mess right there. Quite the confusion about the runway to land. May I point out that it is the pilot who switches runways back and forth; ATC is trying to help by approving their requests, IMO. Pilot makes/requests at least two runway switches, which ATC approves.

The fact that the pilot voice changes from female to male (early on and it doesn't change back) may be that PF/PM duties were transferred as a means to cope with a high workload situation due to whatever reasons (weather, the ensuing confusion, circling to land, etc). As a mere speculation I think male voice is PIC and female voice is SIC. Could be that PIC was PF and as soon as things start to get murky, SIC is now PF to enable PIC to dedicate his mental capacity to making decisions instead of flying the airplane, which is now SIC's job, under PIC directions. As I said, take it with a grain of salt, it's mere speculation.

Nevertheless, quite astounding the runway switching (out of the blue, since transmissions from other aircraft were quite normal until 211 came along)
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 20:11
  #44 (permalink)  
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Direction confusion

Nepali Times quotes an eyewitness saying aircraft came in from the south, making a steep turn to the left getting dangerously close to the tower:

According to a reliable eye-witness who was present at Sinamangal, just west of the Airport terminal, he saw the Bombardier aircraft coming in from the south, then rather than landing taking an unexpected steep turn to the left. According to the eye-witness, the aircraft came very close to the control tower while it did the turn, then flew over a Buddha Air ATR and a Yeti Airlines Jetstream and went out of sight. "In a couple of seconds I saw a pall of smoke rise from the other side of the runway."
If this is correct, how does the aircraft end up on the soccer field east of the runway? Must have made another 180 deg turn away from terminal/tower buildings.

Does anybody know the usual approach routes to respective runways? As I understand, standard approach is from the south.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 20:11
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Raffles S.A. View Post
No mention of weather in the conversation, given that there were thunderstorms in the vicinity.
that's not quite correct.

the tower asks to confirm VFR
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 20:15
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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@Escape Path

Your speculations are correct. The female voice is the First Officer. Considering Kathmandu is a Cat C airfield and the nature of the situation (circle to land? Yes? No?), I doubt the First Officer was the PF. You would think so considering the fact that the Capt is doing all the radio.

The chatter in Nepalese you hear in the recordings is another pilot on ground letting the tower know his concerns about how the aircraft could possibly be disoriented and that he might need vectors. The tower agreed that he might have lost situational awareness. Quite possible that he lost sight of the a/c from the apron and that would likely mean the dash8 crew lost ground contact as well, not a good situation to be in considering he declared VFR.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 20:37
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Was there a go around attempt after a botched landing perhaps? Sounds like they buzzed the tower and nearly hit Thai and a couple of other planes before going over the side to the east. The runway 02, runway 20 confusion continues right up to the mishap in the liveatc.net recordings.

“The plane flew past just above the air-traffic control tower during its descent for landing. It touched down the ground just next to a parked plane and ploughed through a fence on the east side of the airport, and plunged into the lower ground,” said Chhetri. “Security personnel from Nepal Army and Nepal Police rushed for rescue operation due to timely fire control alert. Had the intensity of fire I saw continued for 10 more minutes, the situation would have been even more dreadful.”

Airport officials said the Bangla plane narrowly escaped from hitting the tail of Thai Airways plane parked at the airport.

Chhetri said when the aircraft approached ‘nine nautical miles’ the airport officials permitted it to land from south (02), but the pilot took the plane towards north (02) for landing [sounds like the writer is confused as well - Airbubba]. “When control tower asked the pilot if there was any problem, the pilot said everything is okay. However, instead of landing from the north side, the plane went towards north-east and made two rounds,” said Chhetri. “Again the tower asked the pilot why he didn’t land the plane and enquired if he was okay. In reply, the pilot said all is fine and he was preparing to land. The alignment of the plane was not properly adjusted for landing. When the air-traffic controller informed about the alignment, there was no response. And then the plane descended from close to airport tower towards the right side (near army hangar),” he added.
US-Bangla plane crashed due to missed approach: TIA - National - The Kathmandu Post
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 20:47
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Whenever any confusions exist, and sometimes they do, the only course of action is to stop descending, and if necessary high rate climb to MSA.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 20:53
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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What a mess. If it narrowly missed the parked Thai, I would expect some security cam footage within a few days.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 20:59
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by txl View Post
If this is correct, how does the aircraft end up on the soccer field east of the runway? Must have made another 180 deg turn away from terminal/tower buildings.
I think it is consistent if the "left" was to the left of the observer.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 21:28
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Airbubba View Post
Was there a go around attempt after a botched landing perhaps?
Probably there was.
Check the altitude record from the FR24 tweet

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DYFNWU4W4AArpef.jpg:large

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Old 12th Mar 2018, 21:40
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Looking at the ATC transcript, the phrase 'Cleared to Land' (CTL) was said 13 times, it should have only been said twice; Once by ATC, then one confirmation reply by the aircraft. Also after they had been cleared to land RW 20 a further airplane was cleared to land on RW 02. At no point was their Clearance Cancelled, so in effect they were cleared for both 02 and 20.


I hope they bring in an independent AAIB, as there are some fundamental faults blatantly obvious.
.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 22:18
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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The male pilot seemed most inconsistent, confirming both 02 and 20 in succession. Crazy.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 22:21
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Let’s remove the phrase “Pilot error” as a possible cause. I think we’ll find this a major cock-up where the fundamental problem is poor standards. Pilot error implies that they know the difference between right and wrong. The ATC transcript appears to show neither ATC nor the crew knew where they were. If I were looking to find fault I’d start looking at the money. If this was a joint US-Bangladesh operation I’d want assurances that the US side had ensured beyond all reasonable doubt that there would not be a smoking hole in the ground. How? The US had literally thousands of well qualified trainers who could advise the US side as to the competence of the pilot workforce of this operation and if not, bring them them up to standard. I do hope this worthwhile step was performed.

PM
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 22:34
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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however the accident investigation proceeds , it maybe worthwhile for authorities to recommend that new runways are not aligned 02/20 or 13/31 , to eliminate one small opportunity for confusion in a stressful landing situation .
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 22:38
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jimtun View Post
however the accident investigation proceeds , it maybe worthwhile for authorities to recommend that new runways are not aligned 02/20 or 13/31 , to eliminate one small opportunity for confusion in a stressful landing situation .
For someone clever enough to operate and fly a modern commercial airliner it is not too much of an ask to expect them to know whether they are heading North or South, is it??
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 22:45
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Smott999 View Post
The male pilot seemed most inconsistent, confirming both 02 and 20 in succession. Crazy.
Yep, it sounded like Abbott and Costello doing their 'Baseball' routine (aka 'Who's on First?'). This skit was used as a familiar lesson in miscommunication in CRM courses years ago.

Originally Posted by mmmbop View Post
I am prepared to gamble that that is because you have no experience outside of 'First World' aviation.

The things that are said, and done, elsewhere astound everyone, except those who have experienced it.
I agree. Folks, you just can't make this stuff up. But you have to choose your words with care lest you be deemed culturally insensitive to non-Western levels of operational performance.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 22:46
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Was there ever a radar track of the aircraft that was closer to the airport?
I wonder what Tower was seeing when they declared "you are going towards runway 20".
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 22:52
  #59 (permalink)  

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it maybe worthwhile for authorities to recommend that new runways are not aligned 02/20 or 13/31
Jimtun. You may not be aware, but with changes in variation, the runways would have to be rebuilt every few years.
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 23:00
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Easy guys , thankfully I'm familiar with variation changes over time , and the fact that qualified pilots should know north from south , but funny things can happen the best minds under stress, and anything to ease an approach is welcome Id say . nuff said
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