AC-66 has to repeatly declare MAYDAY to ATC before given clearance
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AC-66 has to repeatly declare MAYDAY to ATC before given clearance
Surprised this hasn't been discussed here yet...
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...to-ind-441893/
Incident: Canada B789 near Hyderabad on Sep 19th 2017, ATC tries to divert aircraft despite several Mayday calls following two diversions
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...to-ind-441893/
Incident: Canada B789 near Hyderabad on Sep 19th 2017, ATC tries to divert aircraft despite several Mayday calls following two diversions
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TSB report
TSB Report#A17F0230: C-FGEI, a Boeing 787-9 aircraft operated by Air Canada, was conducting flight ACA46 from Toronto, ON (CYYZ) to Mumbai, India (VABB) with 14 crew members and 177 passengers on board. During the descent into VABB, ATC cancelled the approach due to a runway excursion by another aircraft. After holding for one hour, the flight crew elected to divert to their alternate airport. Shortly thereafter, ATC notified ACA46 that the alternate airport could not accommodate them because they were at maximum capacity. The flight crew consulted with the operator’s Operational Control Centre (OCC) and the decision was made to divert to Hyderabad, India (VOHS). Enroute to VOHS, ATC notified the flight crew that VOHS was also at maximum capacity and could not accommodate them as well. The flight crew declared a MAYDAY due to their low fuel situation and were given a straight-in approach to Runway 09L where they landed without further event. The operator reported that ATC continued trying to divert the flight or attempted to place it in another hold. The flight crew had to declare MAYDAY four times before ATC cleared them for the approach into VOHS. The TSB is in contact with India’s AAIB.
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I’d flown up from Bangalore one night in Challenger. We were directed to do a 360 which became a “hold at present position, legs your discretion”, no EFC. 45 minutes later directed toward Mumbai, when we finally got to Arrival Control, asked for umpteenth time for EFC. The controller simply said something like, “it’s 3 minutes per arrival and you’re number 12 or 13”. About that tiime, a local left the radar maze with, “I have to divert to Ahmadabad now and am proceeding direct, request clearance”. Controller argued for him to stay, he was now #5 for approach. Captain simply said, “you said that 20 minutes, we’re enroute to Ahmadabad now”. There were flashing lights everywhere.
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Would love to hear the tapes as the media reports are a bit contradictory. But this seems to indicate once more that both Controllers and perhaps aircrew are not fully conversant with Emergency communications .
Minimum fuel = Mayday . Period.
Clearances (authorizations) are not needed in emergency.
An airport filled to capacity can be a reason to refuse a diversion request under normal circumstances, , as the aircraft will not have full support , proper parking space or even stairs , but definitively that does not apply to a flight in emergency. That part the Indian CAA should re-enforce to its controllers.
No-one should have to repeat 4x a Mayday to get attention.
My advice is for crew to always to squawk 7700 when you encounter resistance in an emergency , this generally calm down the other side...if they have radar that is .If not , the other option is switch to 121,5.
Telling ATC what you are doing as opposed to waiting for an ATC instruction is also an option.
Minimum fuel = Mayday . Period.
Clearances (authorizations) are not needed in emergency.
An airport filled to capacity can be a reason to refuse a diversion request under normal circumstances, , as the aircraft will not have full support , proper parking space or even stairs , but definitively that does not apply to a flight in emergency. That part the Indian CAA should re-enforce to its controllers.
No-one should have to repeat 4x a Mayday to get attention.
My advice is for crew to always to squawk 7700 when you encounter resistance in an emergency , this generally calm down the other side...if they have radar that is .If not , the other option is switch to 121,5.
Telling ATC what you are doing as opposed to waiting for an ATC instruction is also an option.
Last edited by ATC Watcher; 8th Oct 2017 at 07:04. Reason: typos
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Had to declare a Mayday to Spainish ATC once to get their attention and a direct routing, we had a heart attack victim which they knew all about but ignored our requests for a direct to the alternate.
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Do they have GPS?
I guess my question is, and probably what they were thinking at HYD; (and Heathrow Harrys comment)
Diverting to HYD, calling mayday 4 times enroute with low fuel, why didnt the ac just call mayday and land at original destination?
I guess my question is, and probably what they were thinking at HYD; (and Heathrow Harrys comment)
Diverting to HYD, calling mayday 4 times enroute with low fuel, why didnt the ac just call mayday and land at original destination?
Last edited by underfire; 8th Oct 2017 at 12:53.
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The reason for the cancelled landing clearance is stated in one of the links in the first post. Probably this one: https://avherald.com/h?article=4ae9377c&opt=0
I don't know Mumbai airport, but AFAIK, the normal procedure when approaching reserve fuel while in a holding is to divert instead of declaring an emergency. Usually, with correct flight planning, that should be the safest option. However, when you arrive at your alternate and get told, "you can't land, we're full", things get interesting.
On the other hand, you, underfire, AFAIR are a professional pilot and should know better than me... ;-)
(Disclaimer: I'm just an SLF)
I don't know Mumbai airport, but AFAIK, the normal procedure when approaching reserve fuel while in a holding is to divert instead of declaring an emergency. Usually, with correct flight planning, that should be the safest option. However, when you arrive at your alternate and get told, "you can't land, we're full", things get interesting.
On the other hand, you, underfire, AFAIR are a professional pilot and should know better than me... ;-)
(Disclaimer: I'm just an SLF)
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RealUlli :
This is where listening to the conversation would help determine who said what or misunderstood who. Airport full means gates and parking positions are full . an Airport decision .Nothing to do with ATC. That does not mean ATC can't land aircraft , they just won't be able to gets services. Happens relatively often , especially with massive diversions , due weather, blocked runway , terrorism , etc... Google Teneriffe 1977 or Halifax 9/11 if you want to see photos of examples. Safety first.
get told, "you can't land, we're full", things get interesting
It's all very well, but ... There were a lot of flights diverting. Suppose this wasn't the only one approaching Hyderabad with a low-fuel Mayday. Suppose another one got there first and couldn't get off the runway because the airport was full? That didn't happen in this case, but you couldn't barrel on and land anyway in that situation.
underfire, I guess they didn't land at the original destination because there was a 737 in the mud at the end of runway 27 and presumably they couldn't use 14/32 for whatever reason?
underfire, I guess they didn't land at the original destination because there was a 737 in the mud at the end of runway 27 and presumably they couldn't use 14/32 for whatever reason?