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Interesting Air France A340 - Bogota Incident

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Interesting Air France A340 - Bogota Incident

Old 22nd Jun 2017, 13:48
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etudiant
There are reports that the audio has 'pitch, pitch' alerts at about 31 seconds into the takeoff.
How is that even possible during a takeoff?


What are the necessary conditions to normally trigger such audio warning ?
Does such warning limit in a way the pitch control ?
The Pitch Pitch is for an excessive attitude on rotation and to alert the possibility of a tail strike if the attitude is further increased.
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Old 22nd Jun 2017, 17:19
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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I asked a few pages ago if this a/c could weigh itself and calculate the trim. No reply. Relevant to the above I'll ask again.
Next answer I'd like is what the thrust setting was at TOGA and if it was not max was it increased at any time during the roll.
Boeing have a procedure if not yet at Vr approaching the end of TORA. Do AB's?
Do the computers have a say in the matter if you try to get airborne below Vr? If so, what happens? e.g. reduced pitch angle? but can you become airborne? Useful if in pilot's judgement it is safer to struggle into the air with dexterous finesse and ground effect rather than become a steaming burning hulk at the end of TODA.
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Old 22nd Jun 2017, 17:52
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by iceman50 View Post
The Pitch Pitch is for an excessive attitude on rotation and to alert the possibility of a tail strike if the attitude is further increased.
There was a privately owned F86 many years back that crashed on takeoff because the pilot had raised the nose too early, so the airplane could not accelerate sufficiently.
Is there a parallel here, given the 'pitch, pitch' message apparently came well before the end of the takeoff run?
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Old 22nd Jun 2017, 22:36
  #44 (permalink)  

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RAT5:

1) No
2) Report not out yet.
3) No, such window dressing and lawyerism had not reached AB books yet. They do have one other, applicable within your speculation: "If things do not go as expected, take over."
4) No
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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 04:30
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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F86 Crash SAC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_S...Sabre_accident
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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 13:12
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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There are reports that the audio has 'pitch, pitch' alerts at about 31 seconds into the takeoff.
Reports ... ?
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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 16:50
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Thank you FD. Gracious.

the audio has 'pitch, pitch' alerts

Last time some old biddy crowed that at me was during choir practice sometime in my misspent pre-rebeleous teenage years.
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Old 24th Jun 2017, 02:16
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CONF iture View Post
Reports ... ?
The original reference afaik was in The Aviation Herald, shown here:

'Pitch Pitch
By Rantanplan on Thursday, May 18th 2017 14:15Z

Seems that crew were subject to a "pitch pitch" alarm from the plane, which is strange because this alarm should only occur during flare and landing.. (Fcom 31 Audio Indicator)
A quick answer from Airbus would be appreciated...'
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Old 25th Jun 2017, 22:07
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by etudiant View Post
There was a privately owned F86 many years back that crashed on takeoff because the pilot had raised the nose too early, so the airplane could not accelerate sufficiently.
Is there a parallel here, given the 'pitch, pitch' message apparently came well before the end of the takeoff run?
Things don't add up really. After 30 seconds, a 340 in Bogota has not even reach the 100 kt speed.
You seem to think that the audio alert pitch pitch is for flare and landing only, and iceman50 thinks it is for rotation
Any FCOM reference for that ?
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Old 25th Jun 2017, 23:47
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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I don't know.
Someone better skilled than I will have to find that reference.
I actually have no idea why there would be a 'pitch, pitch' message, but agree that things don't add up.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 04:44
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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The "Pitch - Pitch" auto callout, if that is what occurred, is a modification on older aircraft / standard on newer aircraft, to try and prevent a tail strike on take off or landing. It is referenced along with a tail strike pitch indicator on the PFD.

CONF iture I did not think it was just for take off, the landing part was not mentioned as this was a take off scenario!
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