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SQ-368 (engine & wing on fire) final report out

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SQ-368 (engine & wing on fire) final report out

Old 27th Jun 2016, 14:45
  #121 (permalink)  
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Something about accidents happening in threes ?
My rudementary grasp of such stuff says that 'chance' doesn't have a memory.
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Old 27th Jun 2016, 14:48
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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Ex EGLL, none that know their job is the answer. The purpose of evacuating is to avoid the risk of more serious consequences by staying onboard, not to worry about being second-guessed later. No breach of the fuselage is simply not an appropriate criterion to judge an evacuation on.

A fire of a tenth of that magnitude is more than ample reason to evacuate in most pilots' view I think. We all know how fast a fire can turn into an inferno - unless the fire surrounds the aircraft the only safe place to be is outside and fast.
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Old 27th Jun 2016, 14:53
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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Well time for me to add something i guess!!

I find it incredible, no amazing that they didn't evacuate given the size of the damn Fire and the fact that on the 777-300ER you CAN see the wing quite well in the Camera, so they would have seen it.

A lot of questions will be asked and hopefully we will get to the bottom of this event and ALL learn something from it.

Thanks goodness no one was hurt or died.

Just shows you how tough the mighty 777 is.
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Old 27th Jun 2016, 15:13
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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likelihood for serious pax injuries via evac command is almost a g'teed
On a point of order, no it isn't. Minor injuries, maybe, a broken ankle even; otherwise, show me some evidence of more than very, very few serious injuries in aircraft evacuation via slides, due to the evacuation itself.

By serious I (and everyone else, I think) mean life-threatening or close to that.

Press reporting tends to class every bruise or graze as an injury or "hurt"; but even in reports like the Mail's on the Jet2 evacuation at GLA didn't claim a "serious" injury.

I do not believe that the remote possibility of an injury to a passenger should stop a Captain from ordering an evacuation for a heartbeat. If it's needed, it's needed.
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Old 27th Jun 2016, 15:25
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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Every emergency is not the same and it will be dangerous for passengers to be walking around when an aircraft is on fire. They could be run over by fire equipment (like the Asiana incident in SFO). I think in this SQ incident most people feel everyone was very lucky indeed.

May be good to view the Ci incident again. Less then 2 mins after the video started we had the first explosion. The actual fire may have started a minute or two before the vid began. The EVAC was called immediately as you can see the rear slide out and passengers exiting and the front slide was just inflating.

One brave ground crew even came around with a fire extinguisher. Brave but foolhardy move.

The Ci EVAC was a great call, had they been onboard during the first explosion, would not have been good.

By the time the trucks came around, they may as well have stayed back in the fire house, there was nothing to save.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qyZ...1ZLM4p_VmMV3Uh

Wifey flying SQ 77W very soon. Lucky she is not concerned. There is a lot of trust in SQ. Its not Lion. The SQ crew also had nerves of steel to stay calm and NOT evacuate.

I would have busted open a door and possibly be jailed afterwards but I couldn't sit around especially if I saw the fire outside my window.

This fire seemed every bit as bad as the Ci Okinawa incident. It was just put out before the plane exploded...thank goodness.
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Old 27th Jun 2016, 15:46
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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So, in a parallel universe, the same SQ 777 lands, same fire, same response time from AFS, same end result BUT the passengers were ordered to evacuate, how many of the armchair critics / experts would be lambasting the crew for needlessly putting peoples lives at risk by ordering an evacuation when the inside of the A/C was totally undamaged?
AMEN!

Maybe a sprain or broken bone, but i bet not one criticism for ordering the evacuation!
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Old 27th Jun 2016, 15:47
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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The Ci EVAC was a great call, had they been onboard during the first explosion, would not have been good.
The Ci evac was the only call. Fire = evacuation, no questions asked. As it should have been here.

And the Ci 'explosions' were not exactly explosions. As I understand it, these were tyre-hydraulic blowouts. But anything that stirs up a fuel fire looks like an explosion. Try blasting a dry powder extinguisher into a fuel bath and see what happens. It will not be the desired effect, that is for sure.
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Old 27th Jun 2016, 15:56
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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So, in a parallel universe, the same SQ 777 lands, same fire, same response time from AFS, same end result BUT the passengers were ordered to evacuate, how many of the armchair critics / experts would be lambasting the crew for needlessly putting peoples lives at risk by ordering an evacuation when the inside of the A/C was totally undamaged?
Fortunately fuel was not gushing towards the fuselage. Looking at what fire did to BA276 fuselage in few seconds, not evacuating 240+ ???

There will always be injuries with evacuation, I don't think crew would hesitate for one second to avoid such minor injuries.
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Old 27th Jun 2016, 15:59
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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bloody idiots, sitting inside an aircraft with an uncontained fire.
On youtube clearly visible that after + 3 very long minute the Fire Services were not able to suppress the fire.
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Old 27th Jun 2016, 16:13
  #130 (permalink)  
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The view assuming the camera worked.
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Old 27th Jun 2016, 16:29
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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Aviation kero fires are typically very smoky but this looks worse than usual so maybe there was oil burning as well.
From the late appearance of the black smoke in the external video, I'd think maybe tires burning.
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Old 27th Jun 2016, 17:51
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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it will be dangerous for passengers to be walking around when an aircraft is on fire.
Yes, I'll buy that, having been the person responsible for an annual CAP 148 airfield crash exercise at night, with 110 Casualty Union people and a full turn-out of all the services including the ladies serving tea, which was marred by a Local Authority fire tender running over the legs of a CU person feigning unconsciousness as briefed in the hope that some one would find him, 100m from the scene. The Risk Analysis didn't think of that one, which took a bit of explaining..

But severe injuries in the process of leaving the aircraft, apart from burns, are not common at all.

PS I just watched that China airline fire video. Long way from the Fire Station, was it? I'm sure that PPRuNe has been through all that, just a comment. Good evacuation, though. Makes you realise why overwing exit seats give a false sense of security; most fires involve engines/wings and the centre/wing fuel tanks, so that from the overwing seats you're in the back of the queue for the usable exits.

Last edited by Capot; 27th Jun 2016 at 18:05.
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Old 27th Jun 2016, 18:20
  #133 (permalink)  
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The hydraulic lines from the engine route through the back of the pylon up onto the rear of the rear spar.

So I'm guessing a considerable internal pylon / front spar main fuel supply fuel leak flooding the pylon with fuel therefore allowing vapor to flood the leading and trailing edge cavities during the extended diversion.

Airflow prevents pylon fuel / vapor from contacting hot engine till roll out, kicking off the fire.

Engine change without new fuel line seals or incorrectly connected fuel line etc during maintenance.

Any maintenance carried out recently?

Last edited by CCA; 27th Jun 2016 at 18:42.
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Old 27th Jun 2016, 18:38
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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Also surprised by the lack of evac, BUT the video i have seen from the terminal looks like there COULD have been fire under the a/c on the left side too. Possibly in the pilots cameras that looked too dangerous to evac on the left side. Dont hang them from your armchair without all of the facts, is all I say.
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Old 27th Jun 2016, 18:41
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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I flew the 777-300 as an f/o. the tail mounted camera is actually pretty good. Even during night time. You can see quite an amazing amount of detail.
For example, whether the chocks are still in place. Or a small puff of smoke when you start up an engine.
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Old 27th Jun 2016, 19:03
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CCA
Engine change without new fuel line seals or incorrectly connected fuel line etc during maintenance.

Any maintenance carried out recently?
Very unlikely that it was the first flight following an engine change, judging from the FR24 flight history.
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Old 27th Jun 2016, 19:35
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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Leaving aside the evac or not situation , and it does look very scary indeed with the whole wing alight if iwas a regualr SQ pax I would wonder about he diversion back to base.

it does seem quite common now to return to home or convenient airport rather than land asap. With the smell of fuel in the cabin shouldnt one of the flight deck come back for a nose around?

If there was clear evidence of a fuel leak surely a land asap is the wisest course since had this inferno broken out at FL170 everyone is dead for sure and it seems mere chance that airflow kept the flames away from the engine -if more and more fuel leaked sooner or later its going to find something hot . Is there a bit too much trust in the airframe at times or a bit too much emphasis on what it will cost to hotac 300 pax , provide a substitute plane and then recover this one.

it does seem to me to be a lucky escape but more from the diversion point of view than slides or no slides
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Old 27th Jun 2016, 19:43
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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@Soundbarrier - another pax with very low information willing to hazard the entire passenger complement by taking unauthorized panic action and opening a door perhaps letting in the smoke from a fire you couldn't see.

And I bet you have the temerity to complain about people evacuating with carry-on.
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Old 27th Jun 2016, 19:48
  #139 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
Very unlikely that it was the first flight following an engine change, judging from the FR24 flight history.
It doesn't have to occur after the first flight.

AA191 (engine departed) crashed 8 weeks after incorrect maintenance.
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Old 27th Jun 2016, 20:24
  #140 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by t_cas
When a door opens the cabin becomes exposed to the fire that is no longer being either controlled or contained.
Sorry, but you're joking, right?
This 1/8th inch Aluminum Foil will stand direct heat from 10.000 Gallons of Kerosene for maybe 2 or 3 seconds. You can almost ignore it is there from a Fire protection perspective. Had the wind turned around this would have ended in Tears. Lots of. Within seconds.


I'm completely at a loss how everyone sat there and didn't weither force the crew to evacuate or start self- evacuation. I can't fathom myself sitting there and waiting were I watching the scene outside window live and in real time.
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