New jumpseat regulations?
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New jumpseat regulations?
It would appear that the US is about to introduce new regs over who can travel on jumpseats, it looks like it will almost certainly put a block on wives/partners etc. and may even be more far reaching than that, seems yet another over reaction from the US.
Land of the Free? more like Land of the Paranoic.
Land of the Free? more like Land of the Paranoic.
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Also heard that the jump seats will only be available for operating/relief crews or anyone concerned with the operation of the flight unless cleared by the FAA. Believe the UK CAA is likely to follow as well. How is this going to affect pilots in the US using the jump seat when off duty going home etc?
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Foxmouth:
The jumpseat in the US has never been open to wives/partners.
Only cockpit crew members and FAA inspectors.
Still land of the free, but the ********* on September 11 screwed up some of the freedom.
Shame on you TD. Using racist overtones, not like you at all. Now deleted
The jumpseat in the US has never been open to wives/partners.
Only cockpit crew members and FAA inspectors.
Still land of the free, but the ********* on September 11 screwed up some of the freedom.
Shame on you TD. Using racist overtones, not like you at all. Now deleted
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NATS (UK) ATCOs, up until last year, had a 'Fam' (Familiarisation) Flight scheme whereby we could occupy the J/S and see what you guys did to earn all that money. (This included US based carriers for which FAA written authorisation was required and was, to my knowledge, always given).
It was highly beneficial to see what life was like at the other end of the headset and gave us an insight into CRM, aircraft performance, how to make life easier for busy crews, etc. The knowledge gained on such trips was invaluable as it enabled us to get a better understanding of what was reasonable to ask a crew to do to and what was/was not possible for them to achieve.
Our scheme has temporarily ceased due to budgetry constraints on the part of NATS. However, it would be a great pity if legislation on the part of the FAA/CAA were to prevent its recommencing at some point in the future.
(NATS currently includes at least two 'Fam-Flights' with a UK based carrier as part of its Student ATCO training programme)
It was highly beneficial to see what life was like at the other end of the headset and gave us an insight into CRM, aircraft performance, how to make life easier for busy crews, etc. The knowledge gained on such trips was invaluable as it enabled us to get a better understanding of what was reasonable to ask a crew to do to and what was/was not possible for them to achieve.
Our scheme has temporarily ceased due to budgetry constraints on the part of NATS. However, it would be a great pity if legislation on the part of the FAA/CAA were to prevent its recommencing at some point in the future.
(NATS currently includes at least two 'Fam-Flights' with a UK based carrier as part of its Student ATCO training programme)
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Tower Dawg
The flight deck jumpseat may not be open to wives/partners on US carriers, but is, at least for now, on some UK carriers. Don't know about other countries.
I agree with foxmoth - yet another knee jerk!
BTW I have many Arabic/Muslim friends who would be dismayed by your racist use of *******
Removed for the same reason on TD's post.
The flight deck jumpseat may not be open to wives/partners on US carriers, but is, at least for now, on some UK carriers. Don't know about other countries.
I agree with foxmoth - yet another knee jerk!
BTW I have many Arabic/Muslim friends who would be dismayed by your racist use of *******
Removed for the same reason on TD's post.
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jumpseats
Tug 3 - Agree wholeheartedly - every jumpseat ride a learning experience - and almost only chance of interaction with flight deck crew. If we are banned from jumpseats I believe it will create a "them and us" situation.
Would be interested to hear comments from flight deck crew - and perhaps they might be able to influence those concerned to enable us to ride jumpseats in future.
Do any UK carriers have an 'approved' list of who can ride on the jumpseat ? If so do ATCO's appear on the list ?
Would be interested to hear comments from flight deck crew - and perhaps they might be able to influence those concerned to enable us to ride jumpseats in future.
Do any UK carriers have an 'approved' list of who can ride on the jumpseat ? If so do ATCO's appear on the list ?
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I understand that BA skippers may now only issue the jumpseat to BA staff or other persons personally know to the Captain.
As a OneWorld FO recently denied the jumpseat despite knowing the BA FO on the flightdeck due to the above I feel things have gone a bit silly.
Wonder what would happen to the BA crews living elsewhere, especially the scores in Ireland if other OneWorld carriers applied the same policy so rigidly.
What goods a flight crew ID anymore, I'm starting to just pay the full fare... Perks,what perks...
As a OneWorld FO recently denied the jumpseat despite knowing the BA FO on the flightdeck due to the above I feel things have gone a bit silly.
Wonder what would happen to the BA crews living elsewhere, especially the scores in Ireland if other OneWorld carriers applied the same policy so rigidly.
What goods a flight crew ID anymore, I'm starting to just pay the full fare... Perks,what perks...
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Foxmoth- were you on another planet last 11/9? <<It would appear that the US is about to introduce new regs over who can travel on jumpseats, it looks like it will almost certainly put a block on wives/partners etc. and may even be more far reaching than that, seems yet another over reaction from the US.
Land of the Free? more like Land of the Paranoic.>>......I was given to understand that Atta himself, the alleged ringleader, was probably ALREADY on the F/D jumpseat with a fake ID. Got any better ideas for security? It seems to me your posting was largely an excuse to display some anti-Americanism emotion for reasons best kept to yourself!
Land of the Free? more like Land of the Paranoic.>>......I was given to understand that Atta himself, the alleged ringleader, was probably ALREADY on the F/D jumpseat with a fake ID. Got any better ideas for security? It seems to me your posting was largely an excuse to display some anti-Americanism emotion for reasons best kept to yourself!
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I must say that my Company has a jumpseat authorisation policy (at present), and it has been enjoyed many times by many, many company employees and partners.... AND it has been a boon to those of us who operate long-haul in keeping marriages and relationships together.
Lets get something straight.... 11th Spetember and the atrocious acts perpetrated were NOTHING... I say again NOTHING to do with the airlines involved OR the Flight Deck/Cabin Crew members on those flights OR jumpseat occupancy !!!!!.......PERIOD.
It was the result of exceedingly lax security at the airports where these animals (being PC here)... boarded !!!!!....PERIOD..
This is a knee jerk reaction as the FAA has to be seen to be doing "something" to calm the great American public's fears.
Tell me what locking the flight deck doors does ???.... If I recall the actual cockpit voice tape of Capt. Al Haynes comments correctly. As he struggled to control his DC10 on final approach to Souix City he said "Unlock that f**k*ng door..!!!".
I presume in order that his crew could professionally carry out their duties and maintain the extraordinarily high standard of CRM that resulted in the (reasonably) succesful outcome of that particular incident.
Now we have a bunch of FAA beauracrats and suits telling us to ignore 20 years of facts relating to CRM and the lessons learned therein...... AND dictating poicy across National Borders..... (I wonder what the outcry from ther US would be like if the EU unilaterally acted in such a manner
.
There need to be unequivocal recognition that the only way to stop acts of terrorism and air piracy is to PREVENT the potential perpetrators from getting ON the aircraft in the first place.
AND I personally don't care what it takes... compulsorary I.D.'s banning of nationals from country's assessed as "high risk"...etc..etc...
Let's get real people....!!!!I
Instead of arguing amongst ourselves.... Start putting pressure on ALPA, BALPA Company management, Regulatory Authorities etc..etc.... TO improve airport security and intelligence data so that these people NEVER get near an aircraft......PERIOD.
Lets get something straight.... 11th Spetember and the atrocious acts perpetrated were NOTHING... I say again NOTHING to do with the airlines involved OR the Flight Deck/Cabin Crew members on those flights OR jumpseat occupancy !!!!!.......PERIOD.
It was the result of exceedingly lax security at the airports where these animals (being PC here)... boarded !!!!!....PERIOD..
This is a knee jerk reaction as the FAA has to be seen to be doing "something" to calm the great American public's fears.
Tell me what locking the flight deck doors does ???.... If I recall the actual cockpit voice tape of Capt. Al Haynes comments correctly. As he struggled to control his DC10 on final approach to Souix City he said "Unlock that f**k*ng door..!!!".
I presume in order that his crew could professionally carry out their duties and maintain the extraordinarily high standard of CRM that resulted in the (reasonably) succesful outcome of that particular incident.
Now we have a bunch of FAA beauracrats and suits telling us to ignore 20 years of facts relating to CRM and the lessons learned therein...... AND dictating poicy across National Borders..... (I wonder what the outcry from ther US would be like if the EU unilaterally acted in such a manner
.There need to be unequivocal recognition that the only way to stop acts of terrorism and air piracy is to PREVENT the potential perpetrators from getting ON the aircraft in the first place.
AND I personally don't care what it takes... compulsorary I.D.'s banning of nationals from country's assessed as "high risk"...etc..etc...
Let's get real people....!!!!I
Instead of arguing amongst ourselves.... Start putting pressure on ALPA, BALPA Company management, Regulatory Authorities etc..etc.... TO improve airport security and intelligence data so that these people NEVER get near an aircraft......PERIOD.
Controversial, moi?
Spearing Britney
Just to clarify, in BA bona fide BA staff passengers, CAA flight ops. inspectors and the like and anybody else specifically authorised in writing by flight management are the only people allowed to occupy the flight deck jumpseat.
Whether an individual is known to the Captain or not is not a factor.
Just to clarify, in BA bona fide BA staff passengers, CAA flight ops. inspectors and the like and anybody else specifically authorised in writing by flight management are the only people allowed to occupy the flight deck jumpseat.
Whether an individual is known to the Captain or not is not a factor.
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do you remember the Russian Airbus who's captains son was allowed to take his fathers seat ...... don't remember the exact circumstances but the aircraft was sent into a non-recoverable dive as a result of the boys actions ...... total write-off with all on board lost ....... I must say that I would prefer cockpit access to be restricted to flying staff (on and off duty) and of course ATCO's for Familiarization trips, with prior formal permission ......
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Poca - "politically correct"??
Whilst there are no words in the English language to describe the actions of, or suitable adjectives to decsribe the lower than low life forms that carried out those acts - I do think "animals" is the correct term. There is no "animal" on Earth that would do such a hideous, hideous, thing to its own species.
I'm with you 110% - up to there.
I'm also with "bring back the fam flights".
Whilst there are no words in the English language to describe the actions of, or suitable adjectives to decsribe the lower than low life forms that carried out those acts - I do think "animals" is the correct term. There is no "animal" on Earth that would do such a hideous, hideous, thing to its own species.
I'm with you 110% - up to there.
I'm also with "bring back the fam flights".
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Yes I DO get frustrated with Americans banging on about being the "land of the free", but when you go there there are actually far MORE restrictions than many other countries I fly ( I COULD give you a list of these restriction, but really can't get up enthusiasm), I think Pothecahostie has made most points that I would otherwise make, there is a HIGH incidence of marriage breakdown in our job and I like to do everything I can to avoid that, taking my wife on trips keeps her sweet.
I have every sympathy for US pilots NOT being able to do this and have helped out before, when asked if I would go on the jumpseat as the Captains wife was travelling (she could not use the JS but as qualified crew I could).
The Russian allowing his son to fly was WRONG and I certainly do NOT condone this, but I think this is a seperate issue again - this guy would probably have ignored any rules about not having his son in the FD anyway.
I have every sympathy for US pilots NOT being able to do this and have helped out before, when asked if I would go on the jumpseat as the Captains wife was travelling (she could not use the JS but as qualified crew I could).
The Russian allowing his son to fly was WRONG and I certainly do NOT condone this, but I think this is a seperate issue again - this guy would probably have ignored any rules about not having his son in the FD anyway.
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Have always wondered why some pilots are too cheap to actually purchase a ticket when they live outside their respective domicile.
Relying on jumpseat authority is foolhardy at best.
Seems a good idea to me would be....live where you work...or else...bid accordingly. Should be good business for moving companies
Relying on jumpseat authority is foolhardy at best.
Seems a good idea to me would be....live where you work...or else...bid accordingly. Should be good business for moving companies
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Not talking here about living away from work, I drive from home but then regularly (once or twice a month)operate to destinations where I may be away from base for 5-10 days. Leaving my wife at home in the rain sorting out School runs/ house/ finance while I sit in the sun does NOT go down well, taking her on the odd trip helps with this, and even with a standby ticket this does not work out cheap by the time we have paid for someone to look after the kids, plus paid the extra costs in her being there. Paying a full fare ticket to make sure she gets on will be prohibitive most of the time.
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GoneWest... Thank you for pointing out the obvious... and it is a sentiment I wholeheartedly agree with...... But... I can't think of an appropriate description for these individuals that would meet with Capt. PPrune's approval..!
411A....Foxmoth and myself work for an outfit that has full occupancy on 95% of it's long-haul flights....Jumpseat authority is in somecases the only way you can guarantee that your spouse/partner can travel with you at the same time when your operating.......And it is particularly used by our cabin crew and ground staff as well...!!
The FAA at present cannot gurantee that the security systems in place will prevent potential terrorists from gaining access to commercial flights Stateside.......... OTHERWISE... they would be banging on about it "ad-infinitum" on CNN 24 hours a day.........!!!!
I repeat that we who are at the "sharp end" in the industry need to be more forcefull in lobbying the relevant authorities to take the neccessary draconian measures to ensure that these people are identified, marginalised, isolated and prevented for ever more, from boarding commercial flights....... ONLY that way can we be sure of preventing similar horrors to that experienced on the 11th Sept...!!!
411A....Foxmoth and myself work for an outfit that has full occupancy on 95% of it's long-haul flights....Jumpseat authority is in somecases the only way you can guarantee that your spouse/partner can travel with you at the same time when your operating.......And it is particularly used by our cabin crew and ground staff as well...!!
The FAA at present cannot gurantee that the security systems in place will prevent potential terrorists from gaining access to commercial flights Stateside.......... OTHERWISE... they would be banging on about it "ad-infinitum" on CNN 24 hours a day.........!!!!
I repeat that we who are at the "sharp end" in the industry need to be more forcefull in lobbying the relevant authorities to take the neccessary draconian measures to ensure that these people are identified, marginalised, isolated and prevented for ever more, from boarding commercial flights....... ONLY that way can we be sure of preventing similar horrors to that experienced on the 11th Sept...!!!
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I don't think further restricting access to the flightdeck jumpseat will make the slightest bit of difference. Post 9/11 at my company you need to be employed by the airline and have a valid IATA ID card. Even then Captain's discretion still applies. If ID cards and aviation security in general are no longer a protection against terrorism then these extremists we unfortunately have in our society can get access to the aircraft before we even take our seats and jumpseat access is the least of our worries.
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