Emirates B777 gear collapse @ DXB?

[Atlas Shrugged]

Perhaps it is time to consider changing this to AVIATE-COMMUNICATE-NAVIGATE.

Umm....perhaps it's not..

[pattern_is_full]

I see that evacuating passengers were burning their feet on the 49C tarmac. Not a good idea to be in bare feet on take off or landing, always leave your shoes on.

I thought required SOP for using the evacuation slides was "Shoes OFF".

To avoid tearing and deflating the slide, or catching a foot in a crevice or fold and breaking a leg.

Or is this like grabbing luggage - "I'll do what is best for my feet - and screw the SOPs and everyone else!"

[VSB via OL]

Originally Posted by stilton

I see that evacuating passengers were burning their feet on the 49C tarmac.


Not a good idea to be in bare feet on take off or landing, always leave your shoes on.
You never know.

Stilton - yup I always leave my shoes on - I always wonder why some pax settle in, shoes off, blankets on, eye shades on before we've even left the gate.

Flew SAA for the first time in a looooonnnnggg time last month - thought their policy of NO Blankets taxi/TO/Land was brilliant

[Wannabe Flyer]

I fly EK all the time & on each & every flight regardless of the class of service at push back the cabin crew do the following

1) Ask you to disconnect cell phone charging & put away loose cables
2) Put your shoes on
3) Every piece of hand luggage no matter how small put into a bin & not even in front of you
4) Every glass cup towel news paper is asked to be tucked away
5) in Economy blankets are usually not there on the sub continent flights & are handed out on demand post take off. US & Europe flights they are in place on your seat.
6) Kids are firmly asked to sit in place.

[NSEU]

I thought required SOP for using the evacuation slides was "Shoes OFF".

Perhaps if you were wearing high heels. Our seat pocket safety cards used to specify leaving shoes on for takeoff and landing, so I took this to mean that you'd need to keep them on during an evac.
At what point would you take off your shoes? Personally, I'd prefer running over burning pieces of twisted metal and plastic in sturdy, enclosed shoes, thanks (and I remember a time when check-in staff would ask pax to put on sensible shoes if they turned up at the desk in less-than-suitable footwear).

[DanielP]

Hi,

In answer to a previous question, looking at a 777-200 drop test, it took about 20secs to retract main landing gear fully.

Daniel

[planoramix]

B777 - Rejected Landing

If a go-around is initiated before touchdown and a touchdown occurs continue with normal go-around procedures. If a go-around is initiated AFTER touchdown:

- MANUALLY advance the thrust levers to go-around thrust.
- TO/GA switches are INHIBITED.
- Autothrottle is NOT available.
- Autobrakes disarm.
- Speedbrake Lever stows.
- CONFIG FLAPS warning will occur.

Maintain Flap configuration

At VREF rotate normally.

Once safely airborne press TO/GA switches.

Perform normal go-around.

[langleybaston]

QUOTE

I see that evacuating passengers were burning their feet on the 49C tarmac

Hotter than that .............. air temp is driven by surface temp, and a blacktop is hottest of all.

Much hotter than that!

[Capn Bloggs]

Originally Posted by Pattern is Full

I thought required SOP for using the evacuation slides was "Shoes OFF".

To avoid tearing and deflating the slide, or catching a foot in a crevice or fold and breaking a leg.

"High Heels Off".

I agree with NSEU. Leave your shoes on. Less likely to fall in a crevice than a smaller, more malleable, bendable foot.

[ACMS]

Singing....."The comments in this thread go round and round, round and round....."

For the love of ........please read above and stop repeating old ideas and thoughts.....

PLEASE.

[Doors to Automatic]

Moderators, given its size would it be possible to split this thread into two? One thread to discuss the accident and the other to discuss the evacuation issues?

[wiggy]

planoramix did you copy and paste this post? If so where did it come from?

Be interesting to see if there's a source, simply because that "procedure" (and the comments/notes) ties in exactly with our teaching on handling baulked landings, as is practised in the sim from time to time...however I'm not sure I've ever seen it written in the manuals.

Edit to add after another search: Best I can find is that the 777 FCTM mentions that the manoeuver is "trained and evaluated by some operators" (my emphasis), says that "the FCOM/QRH does not contain a procedure or maneuver titled Rejected landing" and then refers you to a narrative on "Go-Around after Touchdown", elsewhere in the FCTM, which fills in a lot of the gaps but (as stated) there seems to be no procedure published by Boeing..

[BuzzBox]

The procedure that was quoted is exactly as written in our B777 FCOM - Normal Procedures/Go-Around and Missed Approach: Rejected Landing.

[CDRW]

In terms of the Go Around balked landing does this not seem similar to the SQ debacle in Munich a few years ago???

Those levers on the pedestal are not hand rests!!!

[ETOPSOK]

I teach bounce recovery training in the 777 at my carrier.

1. Re-establish a "landing attitude" (~4 to 5 degrees pitch) to prepare for a possible second contact with the runway.
2. MANUALLY advance the thrust levers to GA thrust limit.
3. When airborne and climbing select TOGA
4. Command "Flaps 20"
5. (PM) calls positive rate off altimeter
6. (PF) call "Gear Up, check missed approach altitude"
7. 400 ft - check roll mode
8. 500 ft A/P on
9. 1000' - Speed up and clean up.

We emphasize not to retract the gear until you are sure you are climbing away from the runway. Hitting TOGA on the runway won't engage the auto throttles into G/A Thrust nor change your flight director pitch commands. However, once airborne and climbing, TOGA works fine. Of particular note is that a SINGLE PUSH of TOGA on any G/A commands a thrust that will give you "approximately 2000'/min VSI) for passenger comfort. With both engines running, you have to hit TOGA twice to get true G/A thrust.

[guadaMB]

After reading all the thread, I find something missing (possibly because there's no way to match the puzzle).
This is a correct TIMELINE.
Timing of events is ESSENTIAL in these cases.
We've got a misunderstood ATC recording, a partial video of an EVAC procedure, etc. Better no mention the possible mess in cockpit when tings went wrong...
Putting all the clues TOGETHER in the right tempo could give to all of us a better "approach" the the real things that happened.
In the meanwhile, all is timewasting...

[wiggy]

Thanks Buzz, looks like this might indeed be a company "thing" ( which TBF is what our FCTM says), since as far as I can see it's not published procedure in any of our docs.

Guess we can come back to this if it is shown to be relevant to the accident.

[bsieker]

Originally Posted by bobdxb

[...] we need to wait until investigators listen to CVR and make judgment who to blame....

(my emphasis)

It would appear you haven't read many actual accident reports. They all explicitly state in the beginning that the purpose is not to apportion blame, but to find causes and thereby prevent a recurrence, as mandated by ICAO Annex 13.

Accident investigators most emphatically do not make judgments who to blame.

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

Apologies to all. I didn't make my original post clear (I failed to communicate effectively), it was late and I put my error down to fatigue.

My post was triggered by a comment made by David Reid and not so much this incident at DBX. I fully appreciate that whilst on that runway then NAVIGATE and COMMUNICATE were completely irrelevant.

The point I was trying to make was that there is the AVIATE>NAVIGATE>COMMUNICATE train of thought and I don't believe that is always the best course to take, and as I said, it always led to a good debate.
AVIATE will always be first, no doubt whatsoever, but there will be many occasions when the communication aspect should take priority over the navigation aspect.

All I was trying to do was to generate some thought and debate about something that is ingrained and perhaps need to be considered.

[Squawk_ident]

Here the link to the UAE AIP for those interested.
To find the OMDB (Dubai Intl.) browse in the left panel to find the AERODROME(AD) section
then AD2 and OMDB ---> OMDB AD2.24 CHARTS RELATED...
All the plates inside are in PDF.
UAE 521 was initially following the BUBIN Arrival and vectored to the 12L ILS Approach.

https://www.gcaa.gov.ae/aip/current/...dex-en-GB.html