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Brexit

Old 9th Jun 2016, 17:12
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Brexit

http://www.thenational.ae/business/aviation/gulf-airlines-keeping-close-watch-on-brexit-scenario

What would be the impact of BREXIT on the aviation in UK and the rest of Europe?

Gulf Airlines are against it. I recall that Ryanair is also opposed to it, is it false to state that a successfull brexit would be the start of the end to European confusion and deregulation, that is profitable to those airlines?
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Old 9th Jun 2016, 17:24
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All Boeings will be melted down and made into magnificent Airbusses.
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Old 9th Jun 2016, 17:27
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NAI would be pissed because there is no open sky agreement between UK and the US
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Old 9th Jun 2016, 17:58
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Fears

Some of us are worried about they way the EU is planning to proceed, others are angry with the current situation. The position is difficult to reduce to simple English and we are being lied to by almost every commentator with an interest as usual.
For me the issues are accountability, finance , the EU secret future plans. Vast financial irregularities by all the decision makers and most of all the absence of democratic process. I want the MP I vote for both in UK and the EU to be involved in decisions affecting me and my countrymen.
There are many examples of daft acts by EU aparatchics but they are correctable. We get much of our contributions back but the EU decides where the returned cash goes and how it shall be awarded. For example our farmers get subsidies but they can only complete the paperwork on line. Many of the country farmers most needing EU subsidy via farm payments have no home access to Email
Some years ago an EU committee awarded a large sum to the British Virgin Islands Airline but only if they bought a french aircraft.
I would prefer to remain in a reformed EU but I see no prospect of that happening, in particular the right to travel freely to any EU country makes us liable to a large influx of south European citizens with which our infrastructure could not cope

Last edited by Tinribs; 9th Jun 2016 at 18:00. Reason: trying to get a balanced view
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Old 9th Jun 2016, 18:36
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Ever closer union is the EU mantra; no secrets there. But there are plans that have been kept under wraps such as the EU military. There is no chance af any reform because the majority of EU contries do not want reform. If you want to be run by a centralized and unaccountable elite, vote in, if not out. As for our industry, plenty of non EU airlines fly over and into the EU. Holidays to The Continent were available before the EU. Its not the EU that has made tickets cheaper, its the locos who make their pilots pay for their training and put them on zero hrs contracts. Not a word from the EU on workers conditions in FR or EZY.
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Old 9th Jun 2016, 18:38
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It is kind of ironic that a Referendum is being offered on E.U. Exit on June 23rd, especially when NO REFERENDUM was granted to UK voters back in the early 1990s when the E.E.C. transmogrified itself into the E.U.

Having worked in E.U. nations from 1997-2004, my own view is that there are most definitely economic benefits from the free movement of labour and goods & services. Politically, however, I can well understand the desires of a people to be ruled by its own elected leaders.

It will probably end up in a fudge, as usual, along the lines of Norway, with the UK dealing with the EU in a free-trade area, at a hefty admission price. If so, my guess is the impact on business will be relatively limited in the short-to-medium term.

And in the long-term we're all dead!
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Old 9th Jun 2016, 19:10
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Well from most of the polling and leafleting I have done most of the Vote Leave supporters won't have to wait for the long term before they are dead-a really unusual age split.
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Old 9th Jun 2016, 19:16
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Most Brits would agree that the UK is a mess. If we were to leave Europe and the Government made a mess of things we can elect another government. We may never get the chance to take the EU decision again during our lifetimes.
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Old 9th Jun 2016, 19:18
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Once upon a time we traded with the commonwealth. The commonwealth was mostly third world. Now lots of those countries are becoming 1st world & maybe overtake us/current 1st world. I know where my future trading options are, in the larger market. For avoidance of doubt not in the EU.
Shock horror low cost Uk, will stop flying to Europe. Ah that means those European low cost will have to stop flying to UK. In my opinion unlikely. Similar to BMW & Audi stopping exports to UK.

Last edited by IcePack; 9th Jun 2016 at 19:20. Reason: Adding UK
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Old 9th Jun 2016, 19:53
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A simple and naive view maybe.........

Look at the aeroplanes we built before we joined The EEC/EU.

And the aeroplanes.....Or bits of them, that we've built since then.

P.S. We invented the jet engine too, which helps all these aeroplanes immensely.
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Old 9th Jun 2016, 20:05
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Originally Posted by IcePack
Once upon a time we traded with the commonwealth. The commonwealth was mostly third world. Now lots of those countries are becoming 1st world & maybe overtake us/current 1st world. I know where my future trading options are, in the larger market. For avoidance of doubt not in the EU.
Shock horror low cost Uk, will stop flying to Europe. Ah that means those European low cost will have to stop flying to UK. In my opinion unlikely. Similar to BMW & Audi stopping exports to UK.
Icepack is quite correct. We have been members long enough to know whether it is working for us or not, so far as aviation is concerned. All we need do is look back to the times before and try and see, try and remember, what it was like to be in the job before the EU. Given that the UK joined 43 years ago most who were would no longer be in the job now. But for all these chaps, the job was a good one and it was for life. All the different nations of the world flew their own planes, it was rare that different nationalities crewed a variety of planes registered under all kinds of flags of convenience. The whole thing now resembles the merchant fleets that ply the oceans for their fares, flying flags of convenience, with lowly paid crews from all the four corners of the world. Nobody really knows who they work for and who owns the airfield, let alone the plane they are flying.
If we are all happy and contended with this situation then we stick with it. If not then we go for the change, no matter what unknowns for the future.
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Old 9th Jun 2016, 20:15
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My main concern about leaving is the impact on the economy. Companies like Nissan and Honda set up factories in the UK because cars made outside the EU were likely to be hit with import duties (currently 10% on cars made in the USA). By making them within the EU they avoided that problem. Now 75% of the cars made in the UK are exported across the channel. If we leave the EU where will they build the next generation of Electric or autonomous cars? Pretty sure it won't be in the UK but in Spain, France or Germany. Last year we exported 1,227,881 cars. That represents a huge amount of money and jobs.

Oh and the state of the UK economy certainly affects aviation.
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Old 9th Jun 2016, 20:23
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Brexit up in the air: implications for aviation if the UK votes to leave the European Union | CAPA - Centre for Aviation

"Brexit up in the air: implications for aviation if the UK votes to leave the European Union"
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Old 9th Jun 2016, 20:32
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A simple and naive view maybe.........

Look at the aeroplanes we built before we joined The EEC/EU.

And the aeroplanes.....Or bits of them, that we've built since then.
Are you suggesting that the UK could provide the sort of state funding that the USA does for Boeing and the EU for Airbus?
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Old 9th Jun 2016, 20:46
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Not really,

We used to be good at doing things though. I think we had a hand in inventing Radar......that chivvies aviation along a bit.
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Old 9th Jun 2016, 20:50
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Originally Posted by cwatters
My main concern about leaving is the impact on the economy. Companies like Nissan and Honda set up factories in the UK because cars made outside the EU were likely to be hit with import duties (currently 10% on cars made in the USA). By making them within the EU they avoided that problem. Now 75% of the cars made in the UK are exported across the channel. If we leave the EU where will they build the next generation of Electric or autonomous cars? Pretty sure it won't be in the UK but in Spain, France or Germany. Last year we exported 1,227,881 cars. That represents a huge amount of money and jobs.

Oh and the state of the UK economy certainly affects aviation.
Yes the state of the UK economy affects aviation, but so does aviation affect the state of the UK economy. The important factor in this equation is how does the UK benefit from a foreign airline that can operate freely ( cabotage ) in the UK and everywhere else, when its profits are banked in its own jurisdiction.

Foreign corporations set up business in the UK, not to do any favours, but to make profits from selling in the UK and there are many more of these than there are UK corporations doing the same abroad. Just look at the recent events in the steel industry.

So called flag carriers are the preferred choice of their own nationals wherever they may be and no matter the price of the air fare may be.

If one has a choice of a job with a British airline and a foreign one, which would be the natural choice, all things being equal.

The enlargement of the EU does not mean more jobs, it means more competition for the jobs that there are. The EU does not create employment, it creates more employment opportunities for more people.
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Old 9th Jun 2016, 20:59
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Why does everyone go on about Norway? We do NOT have to be in the Free Trade Area, and have free movement of labour, to export to the EU. Is the USA in the Free Trade Area, and allowing free movement of Labour? Is China? Regarding the export of cars; if we can't export to the EU, then Mercedes, VW, Fiat, Citroen et al can't export to us. Do you see their CEOs just sitting there letting that happen?

We do not have to be like Norway, like Switzerland, like (was it ) Albania. We can be like Great Britain.

This post will quite likely get pulled, since I gather we are in purdah now, but I feel better for the rant.
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Old 9th Jun 2016, 21:31
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What would be the impact of BREXIT on the aviation in UK and the rest of Europe?
Short answer - Nobody has a Scooby Do.

Why? There will be no negotiations on the subject until post June 23rd...

However you will hear lots of opinions on the subject, such as once we are outside Europe the Brits will be allowed to make better aircraft/cars/widgets than they are allowed to at the moment, UK ATPLs will be given priority at the likes of BA...that in general there will be more jobs for the hard working Brits, and that all the red tape around jump seats will disappear overnight...oh and the sun will be shining every single morning and there will be free beer in all British pubs on a Friday night...

Personally I think ***** all will change, French ATC will still be en Greve, an increasing number of the pilots I work with will be non-Brits and the other guys and girls serving coffee in our Crew report will still all come from east of the Elbe....

Oh sorry.... anyhow despite our differing POVs just like Herod I feel better for that.
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Old 9th Jun 2016, 21:38
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If MOL says we should stay in then ANY UK Commercial pilot should be voting to leave....
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