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The morons on 121.5. Authorities please act!

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The morons on 121.5. Authorities please act!

Old 16th May 2016, 13:47
  #141 (permalink)  
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It would seem so.

Sid, I'm bored of you looking for a slinging match, and can only imagine the esteem your colleagues hold you in!

As for me being a Moron, my old man used to forewarn me as a kid, "better to stay silent and look a fool, than open your mouth and prove it to everyone".

Words to take heed of perhaps?
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Old 16th May 2016, 16:44
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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SilsoeSid, evidently you have never flown outside of first world countries. You try maintaining VHF contact over the bulk of Africa, India, Mandalay or the oceanic airspace near those countries... It's easy to criticise when you have no experience or professional knowledge of how things really work, only a text book.
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Old 21st May 2016, 12:58
  #143 (permalink)  
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First ban practice pans and location fixes, then we can talk. This retarded British idea makes it ok to block an emergency frequency, but a bit of ridicule to make pilots check their box2 prior to transmitting is not?
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Old 23rd May 2016, 04:11
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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Why does the UK allow these practice 121.5 calls? Why not say use 123.45 or a dedicated frequency?

Here in Asia the idiots brigade use it as a chat frequency. Additionally the Japanese and Chinese are using it endlessly to berate anybody coming near their self-created willy-waving ADIZ's.

I've lost count of the number of times I've missed a tower/approach transmission because it's been blocked by some buffoon chatting to his mate on VHF2 121.5.

Net result is a useful safety tool being rendered nearly useless as I need to turn 121.5 down or off.

So whilst those "on guard" team may be equally as annoying sometimes I understand their motives. Other than an ill-advised saying outright "you inconsiderate idiot shut-up" how else do you illustrate to your 'peers' that they are doing something that negatively affects their colleagues and general safety?
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Old 23rd May 2016, 06:46
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There will always be that 2% of outright idiots in any demographic. Pilots are not immune to this and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. In the cruise you are within range of 200/300 aircraft at any time. It is inevitable that once in a while one of those 4/6 idiots is going to do something immature on 121.5

I have said it once, twice, and I'll say it once again: let them be. They know very well that they are on guard, they want you to say 'on guaarrrrrd', it is a small victory for them to be able to reply 'you tooooo', and you really make their day if you start ranting about guard being an international emergency frequency.

Just turn down the volume.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 08:12
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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Al E Vator why would you monitor 121.5 when in the terminal area?
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Old 23rd May 2016, 10:35
  #147 (permalink)  
 
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Last week was the worst I've ever heard entering London. 121.5 has 2/3 idiots competing who could play the more ridiculous music over freq for about 5 minutes.
I then heard a transmission for Norwegian on London freq and they responded to it on guard. Someone else replies "Gotcha"... silence... I guess that'll have to do for justice.
My theory is that it doesn't happen when there are 2 idiots in the flight deck, just one when the other person goes for a piddle.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 12:43
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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Over the UK the problem is not the use of 121.5 for training it is those who abuse the system with stupid noises and music.

I can forgive those who don't understand the UK D&D system from their " you are on guard " reaction but to play music or make stupid noises.............. What has this profession come to ?
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Old 23rd May 2016, 13:20
  #149 (permalink)  
 
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This is a problem which is only getting worse in the US.

I comment to my co-pilot when it happens:

"There is no Captain nor adult in that cockpit."
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Old 23rd May 2016, 15:05
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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This problem has crept over to the Eastern half of the U.S. as well, it has really become noticeable in the last two years. Someone also thinks it funny or cute to play their Islamic call to pray music for steady 2-3 min transmit, whats up with that?
The West half is still silent except for the occasional Delta call to ops.
I just turn it off approaching the Mississippi.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 15:35
  #151 (permalink)  
 
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Danger

Al E. Vator

Why does the UK allow these practice 121.5 calls? Why not say use 123.45 or a dedicated frequency?
If you had read the thread properly; you would have realised that 121.5 MHz is the UK dedicated frequency on VHF. Covered by Autotriangulation equipment. ( Radio Direction Finding Equipment )

Other VHF frequencies are not covered by this National System.

This has been the case in the UK for many years and remains so!

Most misuse of the frequency is down to so-called professional pilots not checking what frequency they are about to transmit on or those making childish animal noises etc.

Be advised, if you are in UK airspace you can instantly be identified and should be fined for misuse of the frequency.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 23:42
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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i must admit that in the years that I worked in D&D funny noises on 121.5 were not a problem. If I was there today with the current systems my response to funny noises etc would be "{callsign} this is {centre} distress and diversion, your position is{lat/Long} what is your emergency?" as they will realize that the callsign was us identifying them so they were no longer anonymous, I would expect them to go quiet.

What is not realized by the morons is that they may think its quiet and a really good time to play silly games but D&D has receivers spread all around the FIR and may be handling a MAYDAY that they cannot hear. But D&D can hear the morons and the emergency aircraft that really needs assistance. I am not sure what legal action for recompense would be taken against a 'making silly noises pilot' who caused the response of D&D to a real emergency to be thwarted, but I am sure the legal representatives of the dead would take some action. Remember that in UK at least morons are not anonymous the autotriangulation is very fast and accurate.

I am not overstating things - I was involved in a rescue where a downed aircraft alert was due to someone hearing intermittent ELT on 121.5 luckily the frequency was not blocked by giggling 'cruise' pilots.
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Old 24th May 2016, 02:36
  #153 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ian W
If I was there today with the current systems my response to funny noises etc would be "{callsign} this is {centre} distress and diversion, your position is{lat/Long} what is your emergency?" as they will realize that the callsign was us identifying them so they were no longer anonymous, I would expect them to go quiet.
Sure, that's an outstanding plan *if* you know the call sign of the aircraft transmitting the pig noises on guard. That's a pretty big "if". I don't think it's very common for the pig noise brigade to identify themselves with a callsign. Like the (very) old joke goes: "I said I was effing bored, I didn't say I was effing stupid."
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Old 24th May 2016, 03:07
  #154 (permalink)  
 
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Exclamation

That is the point we are trying to get across...

There is no if, there is no doubt! These pilots incriminate themselves, as when they transmit; instantly lines shoot out across the radar display from all of the receivers in range and cross the transmitting aircraft contact on the display. Your aircraft squawk reveals your aircraft registration etc. These radar displays are recorded and could be used in evidence for prosecution.

In other words you can be caught red handed!
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Old 24th May 2016, 04:04
  #155 (permalink)  
 
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So how does that work exactly, with a 1200 squawk and a plane that is not currently talking to ATC?
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Old 24th May 2016, 04:29
  #156 (permalink)  
 
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for those in the uk who wonder how an ATCO can identify an aircraft, it is easy if the aircraft is Mode S TXPDR equipped and it is switched on! D & D is able to use the Mode S downlinked data for just this task,,,
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Old 24th May 2016, 05:25
  #157 (permalink)  
 
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billyt - Al E Vator why would you monitor 121.5 when in the terminal area? It's saved my butt a couple of times. Whilst on approach freq, F/O has miss-switched VHF1 to Tower or Ground (having meant to preselect it as the next frequency) and Approach ended-up calling us on 121.5. Very good backup rendered increasingly useless by buffoons chatting about rubbish and blocking 121.5. It's worse if there is a genuine PAN or MAYDAY call blocked by the idiot brigade (who by the way don't include inadvertent calls to company frequency - we've all done that and the odd "on guard" retort hasn't been interpreted by me as offensive at all).

Out of Trim - If you had read the thread properly; you would have realised that 121.5 MHz is the UK dedicated frequency on VHF. Covered by Autotriangulation equipment. ( Radio Direction Finding Equipment ). That's my point mate - get another frequency that performs the same function. 121.5 is for genuine emergencies and is being rendered useless. Going into LHR or MAN, I just have to turn 121.5 off which is a real shame.
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Old 24th May 2016, 06:31
  #158 (permalink)  
 
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It works using DF. As already explained, a number of ground stations pick-up the transmission and triangulate the results, overlay on a radar screen, which offend results in a clear match between radar return (together with al the Mode A/C/S stuff) and triangulated position.
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Old 24th May 2016, 11:32
  #159 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by A Squared
So how does that work exactly, with a 1200 squawk and a plane that is not currently talking to ATC?
As zkdli has said if you have a modern secondary radar fit with Mode S you will be squawking the equivalent of your airframe number - like a MAC Address - in response to every interrogation. ATC knows who you are.

In the UK if you start playing on a distress frequency auto-triangulation (often now called multi-lateration) will link to your secondary and primary radar position. It is completely routine action for the D&D controllers to identify aircraft on radar that have just transmitted on VHF or UHF guard. There may not be many transmissions from an aircraft with an emergency so immediately pinpointing where they are from their transmissions is essential.

So if you start making funny noises you are easily identified and your equipment is helpfully broadcasting your Mode S identity from which your airframe number and registration can be obtained. Of course if you are IFR and working with an assigned SSR code then it is all that much easier your surveillance track will have a label that tells everyone who you are and where you are going at what speed and level and of course who your current controller is. The D&D controller can contact your current controller and ask that you be told to desist.

Big brother is watching you.
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Old 24th May 2016, 12:15
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You need the appropriate licence to operate an aircraft. If you break certain rules Authorities can suspend the privileges of a licence pending remedial training and qualification.

You need an RT licence to operate a radio in an aircraft. I suggest the Authorities do likewise to blatant offenders on 121.5 MHz.
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