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The morons on 121.5. Authorities please act!

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The morons on 121.5. Authorities please act!

Old 9th May 2016, 14:19
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Arrow

One day in the middle of the ocean, I had to try to contact another aircraft, as a request from ATC.
So he might have been out of range of the ATC station, when we were still within.
I therefore tried first on this frequency - no answer. So I tried on Guard - and before I got any answer (which he gave by the way one minute later, on this frequency) some idiot started to bla-bla, with the grave accent they usually take in this case "You are on Guaaard "
so my answer came quickly " I'm on Guard, for good reasons, shut up please" and that was all !
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Old 9th May 2016, 17:14
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Those who tell us to simply ignore the guard idiots obviously do not fly in Europe, or any other busy airspace. Twice today on a rotation to Rome, I missed calls from ATC because they were 'stepped on' by the audio from guard blotting out the audio from ATC.

In some places there is almost continuous chatter on Box 1 and if guard starts up it can be almost impossible to concentrate on either, so how do you ignore guard with it babbling into your ear?

So you turn guard down, or off just so you can concentrate on ATC. Why don't we simply turn it back on after a few mins? Well, because there is a psychological aspect to PLOC, and we don't always remember or notice that we have turned guard off. Meanwhile there is still chatter on box 1 so we think we are still in range with ATC.

This is why some sort of "121.5 NOT MONITORED" message would be useful, popping up after a couple of minutes.

The people who think it is amusing to make noises on guard, defy understanding. They have no respect, either for their profession or for anything else. If flying a modern jet bores them, then they have no right to be there. Also, by their actions they are tacitly demonstrating that they are not aware of what can go wrong. They have clearly never been in a bad situation: the sort where you suddenly think 'this could have a bad outcome'. If they had, they would respect the emergency channel.

The fact that folk can now get straight onto a modern jet after a few hundred hours total time, whereas previously we had to spend years flying aged turbo props and doing night mail runs etc. to earn our stripes does not help. Nor does the fact that some employers do not respect their staff and make them get up at 0300 five days in a row or work until 0200 and pay peanuts or don't pay them.

Last edited by Uplinker; 10th May 2016 at 05:51.
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Old 9th May 2016, 17:33
  #83 (permalink)  

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Shy, you don't say "PAN PAN" across the cockpit for the very obvious reason that if you did have your finger on the tit as is all too possible you'd have just broadcast a real one, just as we used to say in the military before setting off practice emergencies, "For Exercise, ......".
During my fifteen years or so as an RAF QHI and QFI I never had one student press the transmit switch by mistake in those circumstances.

Students tend to do what they have practiced. If they are only ever being taught to say "Practice Pan" without transmitting across the cockpit, chances are they would latterly say "Practice Pan" under real emergency conditions, when the pressure really exists.

Does the military still have 243.8 as an alternative to 243.0? It does seem logical to have an alternative VHF frequency for training purposes. However, as I've said before, if my concentration gets spoiled by chatter on 121.5, I just turn it off on the select switch then back on again after a minute or so, to check if it's quiet again.

So you turn guard down, or off just so you can concentrate on ATC. Why don't we simply turn it back on after a few mins? Well, because there is a psychological aspect to PLOC, and we don't always remember or notice that we have turned guard off.
For the forgetful ones among us, there are ways of reminding ourselves that something needs our attention.

Last edited by ShyTorque; 9th May 2016 at 17:45.
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Old 10th May 2016, 05:53
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Are you going to tell us? All ideas welcome.
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Old 10th May 2016, 09:39
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Uplinker
The fact that folk can now get straight onto a modern jet after a few hundred hours total time, whereas previously we had to spend years flying aged turbo props and doing night mail runs etc. to earn our stripes does not help. Nor does the fact that some employers do not respect their staff and make them get up at 0300 five days in a row or work until 0200 and pay peanuts or don't pay them

if you don't like it.............leave or better join the Army where they work much longer for much less and in much more dangerous situations

Last edited by golfbananajam; 10th May 2016 at 09:39. Reason: correcting a typo
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Old 10th May 2016, 10:46
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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if you don't like it.............leave or better join the Army where they work much longer for much less and in much more dangerous situations
Excellent idea. Let's not worry about the declining standards and erosion of safety in our industry, let's just put up with it and let it happen
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Old 10th May 2016, 12:17
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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SELF-DISCIPLINE - Not Discipline

Originally Posted by fireflybob View Post
I totally agree!

To some extent this reflects the culture we live in these days - discipline seems to be a thing of the past.
As in so many walks of life these days, it's not authoritarian imposed discipline that is required to prevent this abysmal behaviour but SELF -DISCIPLINE. Sadly this is usually learned by example, starting at home before heading out into the big, wide world. As another reader commented, what was the captain doing during this episode? Leading by example? - Not !
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Old 10th May 2016, 12:30
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uplinker View Post
Those who tell us to simply ignore the guard idiots obviously do not fly in Europe, or any other busy airspace. Twice today on a rotation to Rome, I missed calls from ATC because they were 'stepped on' by the audio from guard blotting out the audio from ATC.

In some places there is almost continuous chatter on Box 1 and if guard starts up it can be almost impossible to concentrate on either, so how do you ignore guard with it babbling into your ear?
If it's not a daft question - you're in 2-way with ATC, you don't have a SAR role or triangulation equipment on board, other people are there within the FIR with the explicit role of monitoring guard.

So, why are you monitoring guard?

If it's company SOP - why has that not been challenged and changed on safety and workload grounds?
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Old 10th May 2016, 12:34
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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I can only add that it is not just the Northern Hemisphere that is inflicted with these fools.
In Australia we have more than our fair share of the worlds idiots as well who choose to broadcast proof of their professionalism or lack of it.
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Old 10th May 2016, 13:09
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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@ ShyTorque
Students tend to do what they have practiced. If they are only ever being taught to say "Practice Pan" without transmitting across the cockpit, chances are they would latterly say "Practice Pan" under real emergency conditions, when the pressure really exists.
Spot on !!

Back in the 70's I was on Ground Movement Control at Glasgow when I suddenly heard "Practice Pan, c/s, simulated engine fire". Before I could respond, I heard "er - Pan pan pan, it's not simulated, it's real", the helicopter door slid open & numerous brown jobs ran in the general direction of away. QED ?
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Old 10th May 2016, 17:10
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Genghis because the number of times ATC fail to transfer you to the next frequency & pray tell what frequency is the interceptor going to contact you on. As said often the monitored ATC freq still seems OK as their is still tx going on all be it not from the sector you thought you were on. Golf bannajam you obviously have no idea of what is involved.
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Old 10th May 2016, 18:45
  #92 (permalink)  
RHS
 
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Genghis

My company mandates monitoring guard in case of loss of comms. As the previous posts added this will be the frequency ATC will try to call you on when you go lost comms because they forgot to hand you over. On many frequencies around Europe, you wouldn't believe how quiet the frequencies can get, so you wouldn't even necessarily realise you have lost comms until you're out of range.

In the last few weeks I have also heard a pilot from my company provide assistance and give a relay to an out of comms RYR who hadn't been handed off in Spain, I have also heard a pilot providing assistance on guard to a light aircraft putting out a PAN, and providing a relay.

Guards purpose, and the monitoring of guard is imho an important part of the safety net.
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Old 10th May 2016, 18:59
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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While agreeing with the sentiments as regards the idiots who abuse 121.5 I have to admit the following made me smile at about 3 am on the atlantic a few months ago:


Anonymous voice on 121.5 "What did d'Artagnan say to the third musketeer?"


There was a 2 second pause before a clearly irritated American accented voice fell into the trap and replied "ON GUARD".
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Old 10th May 2016, 20:45
  #94 (permalink)  
RHS
 
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Ok Suninmyeyes, everyone who makes a mockery of 121.5 should have their license revoked, except that guy, because that is brilliant. :
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Old 10th May 2016, 21:26
  #95 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Uplinker View Post
Are you going to tell us? All ideas welcome.
Surely, it's not beyond your own intelligence and imagination to think of something relevant to your operation? Put on the wander light, move something into your eye-line? Tell the other pilot so he can remind you? Put a post-it note on his forehead saying "121.5"? Actually look at the radio switches every now and again?

Or, as my old Granny would have said - tie a knot in your hankie...
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Old 11th May 2016, 06:40
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Why the attitude? No need for that. All ideas welcome.
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Old 11th May 2016, 07:55
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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The 737 had the egg timer for those little reminders - fantastic bit of kit. Most of us now have a smart phone of some sort - use the FOs timer function to give you a 5 minute reminder when you turn down guard.
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Old 11th May 2016, 08:04
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by suninmyeyes View Post

Anonymous voice on 121.5 "What did d'Artagnan say to the third musketeer?"


There was a 2 second pause before a clearly irritated American accented voice fell into the trap and replied "ON GUARD".

That is genuinely brilliant.
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Old 11th May 2016, 09:00
  #99 (permalink)  

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To which one should reply "Touché!"
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Old 11th May 2016, 09:05
  #100 (permalink)  

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Uplinker, no 'attitude' here. However, I am more than a little surprised that some pilots seem unable to think for themselves and unable to cope with something that isn't on one of their company checklists.
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