The morons on 121.5. Authorities please act!
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: Florida and wherever my laptop is
It is extremely unprofessional to use an emergency frequency for chat, showing off, telling jokes etc.. It is like dialing 911 (999) for a laugh. Note that in UK FIRs/UIRs at least, your aircraft position is immediately shown by the autotriangulation systems. Perhaps if the aircraft involved in these silly games were charged triple route charges for that flight the giggling would cease, as the 'professionals' involved appear more concerned about facing beancounters than about the safety of their fellow aviators.
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Clipperton island
One day in the middle of the ocean, I had to try to contact another aircraft, as a request from ATC.
So he might have been out of range of the ATC station, when we were still within.
I therefore tried first on this frequency - no answer. So I tried on Guard - and before I got any answer (which he gave by the way one minute later, on this frequency) some idiot started to bla-bla, with the grave accent they usually take in this case "You are on Guaaard "
so my answer came quickly " I'm on Guard, for good reasons, shut up please" and that was all !
So he might have been out of range of the ATC station, when we were still within.
I therefore tried first on this frequency - no answer. So I tried on Guard - and before I got any answer (which he gave by the way one minute later, on this frequency) some idiot started to bla-bla, with the grave accent they usually take in this case "You are on Guaaard "
so my answer came quickly " I'm on Guard, for good reasons, shut up please" and that was all !
Joined: Nov 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: UK
Those who tell us to simply ignore the guard idiots obviously do not fly in Europe, or any other busy airspace. Twice today on a rotation to Rome, I missed calls from ATC because they were 'stepped on' by the audio from guard blotting out the audio from ATC.
In some places there is almost continuous chatter on Box 1 and if guard starts up it can be almost impossible to concentrate on either, so how do you ignore guard with it babbling into your ear?
So you turn guard down, or off just so you can concentrate on ATC. Why don't we simply turn it back on after a few mins? Well, because there is a psychological aspect to PLOC, and we don't always remember or notice that we have turned guard off. Meanwhile there is still chatter on box 1 so we think we are still in range with ATC.
This is why some sort of "121.5 NOT MONITORED" message would be useful, popping up after a couple of minutes.
The people who think it is amusing to make noises on guard, defy understanding. They have no respect, either for their profession or for anything else. If flying a modern jet bores them, then they have no right to be there. Also, by their actions they are tacitly demonstrating that they are not aware of what can go wrong. They have clearly never been in a bad situation: the sort where you suddenly think 'this could have a bad outcome'. If they had, they would respect the emergency channel.
The fact that folk can now get straight onto a modern jet after a few hundred hours total time, whereas previously we had to spend years flying aged turbo props and doing night mail runs etc. to earn our stripes does not help. Nor does the fact that some employers do not respect their staff and make them get up at 0300 five days in a row or work until 0200 and pay peanuts or don't pay them.
In some places there is almost continuous chatter on Box 1 and if guard starts up it can be almost impossible to concentrate on either, so how do you ignore guard with it babbling into your ear?
So you turn guard down, or off just so you can concentrate on ATC. Why don't we simply turn it back on after a few mins? Well, because there is a psychological aspect to PLOC, and we don't always remember or notice that we have turned guard off. Meanwhile there is still chatter on box 1 so we think we are still in range with ATC.
This is why some sort of "121.5 NOT MONITORED" message would be useful, popping up after a couple of minutes.
The people who think it is amusing to make noises on guard, defy understanding. They have no respect, either for their profession or for anything else. If flying a modern jet bores them, then they have no right to be there. Also, by their actions they are tacitly demonstrating that they are not aware of what can go wrong. They have clearly never been in a bad situation: the sort where you suddenly think 'this could have a bad outcome'. If they had, they would respect the emergency channel.
The fact that folk can now get straight onto a modern jet after a few hundred hours total time, whereas previously we had to spend years flying aged turbo props and doing night mail runs etc. to earn our stripes does not help. Nor does the fact that some employers do not respect their staff and make them get up at 0300 five days in a row or work until 0200 and pay peanuts or don't pay them.
Last edited by Uplinker; 10th May 2016 at 05:51.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,114
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Shy, you don't say "PAN PAN" across the cockpit for the very obvious reason that if you did have your finger on the tit as is all too possible you'd have just broadcast a real one, just as we used to say in the military before setting off practice emergencies, "For Exercise, ......".
Students tend to do what they have practiced. If they are only ever being taught to say "Practice Pan" without transmitting across the cockpit, chances are they would latterly say "Practice Pan" under real emergency conditions, when the pressure really exists.
Does the military still have 243.8 as an alternative to 243.0? It does seem logical to have an alternative VHF frequency for training purposes. However, as I've said before, if my concentration gets spoiled by chatter on 121.5, I just turn it off on the select switch then back on again after a minute or so, to check if it's quiet again.
So you turn guard down, or off just so you can concentrate on ATC. Why don't we simply turn it back on after a few mins? Well, because there is a psychological aspect to PLOC, and we don't always remember or notice that we have turned guard off.
Last edited by ShyTorque; 9th May 2016 at 17:45.
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 224
Likes: 113
From: UK
Uplinker
The fact that folk can now get straight onto a modern jet after a few hundred hours total time, whereas previously we had to spend years flying aged turbo props and doing night mail runs etc. to earn our stripes does not help. Nor does the fact that some employers do not respect their staff and make them get up at 0300 five days in a row or work until 0200 and pay peanuts or don't pay them
if you don't like it.............leave or better join the Army where they work much longer for much less and in much more dangerous situations
The fact that folk can now get straight onto a modern jet after a few hundred hours total time, whereas previously we had to spend years flying aged turbo props and doing night mail runs etc. to earn our stripes does not help. Nor does the fact that some employers do not respect their staff and make them get up at 0300 five days in a row or work until 0200 and pay peanuts or don't pay them
if you don't like it.............leave or better join the Army where they work much longer for much less and in much more dangerous situations
Last edited by golfbananajam; 10th May 2016 at 09:39. Reason: correcting a typo
Joined: Nov 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,147
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From: UK
if you don't like it.............leave or better join the Army where they work much longer for much less and in much more dangerous situations
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 152
Likes: 37
From: Nth Staffs, UK
SELF-DISCIPLINE - Not Discipline
As in so many walks of life these days, it's not authoritarian imposed discipline that is required to prevent this abysmal behaviour but SELF -DISCIPLINE. Sadly this is usually learned by example, starting at home before heading out into the big, wide world. As another reader commented, what was the captain doing during this episode? Leading by example? - Not !
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
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From: UK
Those who tell us to simply ignore the guard idiots obviously do not fly in Europe, or any other busy airspace. Twice today on a rotation to Rome, I missed calls from ATC because they were 'stepped on' by the audio from guard blotting out the audio from ATC.
In some places there is almost continuous chatter on Box 1 and if guard starts up it can be almost impossible to concentrate on either, so how do you ignore guard with it babbling into your ear?
In some places there is almost continuous chatter on Box 1 and if guard starts up it can be almost impossible to concentrate on either, so how do you ignore guard with it babbling into your ear?
So, why are you monitoring guard?
If it's company SOP - why has that not been challenged and changed on safety and workload grounds?
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 361
Likes: 4
From: Australia
I can only add that it is not just the Northern Hemisphere that is inflicted with these fools.
In Australia we have more than our fair share of the worlds idiots as well who choose to broadcast proof of their professionalism or lack of it.
In Australia we have more than our fair share of the worlds idiots as well who choose to broadcast proof of their professionalism or lack of it.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 309
Likes: 4
From: Living In The Past
@ ShyTorque
Spot on !!
Back in the 70's I was on Ground Movement Control at Glasgow when I suddenly heard "Practice Pan, c/s, simulated engine fire". Before I could respond, I heard "er - Pan pan pan, it's not simulated, it's real", the helicopter door slid open & numerous brown jobs ran in the general direction of away. QED ?
Students tend to do what they have practiced. If they are only ever being taught to say "Practice Pan" without transmitting across the cockpit, chances are they would latterly say "Practice Pan" under real emergency conditions, when the pressure really exists.
Back in the 70's I was on Ground Movement Control at Glasgow when I suddenly heard "Practice Pan, c/s, simulated engine fire". Before I could respond, I heard "er - Pan pan pan, it's not simulated, it's real", the helicopter door slid open & numerous brown jobs ran in the general direction of away. QED ?
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 930
Likes: 1
From: United Kingdom
Genghis because the number of times ATC fail to transfer you to the next frequency & pray tell what frequency is the interceptor going to contact you on. As said often the monitored ATC freq still seems OK as their is still tx going on all be it not from the sector you thought you were on. Golf bannajam you obviously have no idea of what is involved.
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 106
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From: United Kingdom
Genghis
My company mandates monitoring guard in case of loss of comms. As the previous posts added this will be the frequency ATC will try to call you on when you go lost comms because they forgot to hand you over. On many frequencies around Europe, you wouldn't believe how quiet the frequencies can get, so you wouldn't even necessarily realise you have lost comms until you're out of range.
In the last few weeks I have also heard a pilot from my company provide assistance and give a relay to an out of comms RYR who hadn't been handed off in Spain, I have also heard a pilot providing assistance on guard to a light aircraft putting out a PAN, and providing a relay.
Guards purpose, and the monitoring of guard is imho an important part of the safety net.
In the last few weeks I have also heard a pilot from my company provide assistance and give a relay to an out of comms RYR who hadn't been handed off in Spain, I have also heard a pilot providing assistance on guard to a light aircraft putting out a PAN, and providing a relay.
Guards purpose, and the monitoring of guard is imho an important part of the safety net.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 275
Likes: 1
From: United Kingdom
While agreeing with the sentiments as regards the idiots who abuse 121.5 I have to admit the following made me smile at about 3 am on the atlantic a few months ago:
Anonymous voice on 121.5 "What did d'Artagnan say to the third musketeer?"
There was a 2 second pause before a clearly irritated American accented voice fell into the trap and replied "ON GUARD".
Anonymous voice on 121.5 "What did d'Artagnan say to the third musketeer?"
There was a 2 second pause before a clearly irritated American accented voice fell into the trap and replied "ON GUARD".
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,114
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Surely, it's not beyond your own intelligence and imagination to think of something relevant to your operation? Put on the wander light, move something into your eye-line? Tell the other pilot so he can remind you? Put a post-it note on his forehead saying "121.5"? Actually look at the radio switches every now and again?
Or, as my old Granny would have said - tie a knot in your hankie...
Or, as my old Granny would have said - tie a knot in your hankie...
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