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The morons on 121.5. Authorities please act!

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The morons on 121.5. Authorities please act!

Old 11th May 2016, 10:05
  #101 (permalink)  

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Uplinker, no 'attitude' here. However, I am more than a little surprised that some pilots seem unable to think for themselves and unable to cope with something that isn't on one of their company checklists.
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Old 11th May 2016, 10:10
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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That VHF2 knob is part of my instrument scan, if I've been irritated by something on 121.5 and end up turning it off, it'll be back on between a minute or two.

Just like that.
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Old 11th May 2016, 10:13
  #103 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ShyTorque
Uplinker, no 'attitude' here. However, I am more than a little surprised that some pilots seem unable to think for themselves and unable to cope with something that isn't on one of their company checklists.
Sign of the times.
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Old 11th May 2016, 11:12
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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The distractions on the guard frequency are usually genuine urgency calls. As professional pilots we should know how to deal with this. Whenever I feel distracted by calls on 121.5 I turn the frequency down low enough so not to disturb my active ATC frequency, but high enough for me to notice that someone is calling me should all go a bit quiet. Usually the volume will be back at a normal level well before that anyway.

Like many I cannot comprehend why someone would want to make animal noises on 121.5 but I think we all know more or less where this behavior comes from geographically. As I stated earlier, just ignore it. Don't feed the troll. You can't tell a pig not to roll in its own

As for the practice PANs, well, you just cannot complain about distractions and endorse practice PANs in the same topic
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Old 11th May 2016, 14:05
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Uplinker, no 'attitude' here. However, I am more than a little surprised that some pilots seem unable to think for themselves and unable to cope with something that isn't on one of their company checklists.
So true! Doing "things right" = management, doing "the right thing" = leadership.
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Old 11th May 2016, 19:19
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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At some point, a few even interjected by a humming rendition of Piero Umiliani's Mah Na Mah Na which caused even more "humorous" outbursts, catcalls etc... WTF?
LOL thanks. Song downloaded now and ready for playback! En Garde!!
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Old 11th May 2016, 20:03
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Anonymous voice on 121.5 "What did d'Artagnan say to the third musketeer?"


There was a 2 second pause before a clearly irritated American accented voice fell into the trap and replied "ON GUARD".
That American probably went to some trade school in Daytona where they don't teach the works of Alexander Dumbass.
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Old 12th May 2016, 01:07
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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121.5 back on

The annoying for me is when these jokers start their babble and childish games. I switch off 121.5 temporarily so I can listen properly to the frequency, if it is busy. ( Yes, you should not. ) The problem is if you forget to put 121.5 back on right away. Does this affect safety? yup. We do not need authorities to police us more but
politeness and manners. It is a question of airmanship and why do so many pilots step on each other more and more on the radio? Less gentleman out there it seems. It is poor airmanship.
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Old 12th May 2016, 08:41
  #109 (permalink)  

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Isn't this thread totally oxymoronic?

I can't believe that those complaining so much about the 'morons on 121.5', keep quiet when one of those 'morons' chirps up on the air, simply because they have so much to say here.

Some great points as always by the likes of Shytorque & Ghengis, yet right on cue the vampiric complainers aim straight for the jugular, resulting in those points being ignored
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Old 12th May 2016, 08:49
  #110 (permalink)  

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My company mandates monitoring guard in case of loss of comms. As the previous posts added this will be the frequency ATC will try to call you on when you go lost comms because they forgot to hand you over. On many frequencies around Europe, you wouldn't believe how quiet the frequencies can get, so you wouldn't even necessarily realise you have lost comms until you're out of range.
ATC may well have forgotten to hand you over, but isn't there a point at which you should be thinking to yourself, "I need to be changing frequency around here?"
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Old 12th May 2016, 08:59
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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ATC may well have forgotten to hand you over, but isn't there a point at which you should be thinking to yourself, "I need to be changing frequency around here?"
Absolutely! Since the advent of FMC and EFIS and relying on these items rather than looking at charts the level of situational awareness has decreased. In the days when we didn't have such devices we were very aware of FIR boundaries and sector change over points. Whilst I would agree there is more sectorisation these days it surely wouldn't be beyond the wit of the software guys to portray FIR boundaries on the EFIS ND.

A few years ago I a got the high level chart covering the Bay of Biscay area out and my FO wasn't even aware that enroute Comms frequencies were on the chart - sometimes useful if you lose comms with ATC.

Has any in depth research been conducted to find out why and where loss of comms takes place? Are there certain geographical points where this is more likely to happen (rather like hotspots shown on charts for runway incursions). Are some radio fits more disposed to loss of comms by inadvertently turning the volume down? Do pilots know how to verify correct receiver operation (e.g. by momentarily lifting the squelch control).
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Old 12th May 2016, 10:11
  #112 (permalink)  

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Do pilots know how to verify correct receiver operation (e.g. by momentarily lifting the squelch control).
Exactly, and in addition, do they also know that at 'extended ranges' when comms might normally be considered 'lost', that you can turn up the squelch and hear transmissions that would normally go unheard through the noise?
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Old 12th May 2016, 14:58
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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The radios that I've used in recent years don't have a squelch control or squelch override button.

And I never knew that some planes had a locking transmit switch on the yoke/joystick until I read about it here on PPRuNe.
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Old 12th May 2016, 23:24
  #114 (permalink)  
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Silsoesid, in short. There is no squelch on the aircraft I fly. So despite being one of those spiky haired iCadets everyone hates so much, yes I do know from a previous type how to use squelch, unfortunately I cannot. Yes I'm annoyed by it too.

Flying over France, where the boundaries are often miles apart, if VHF1 fails, then my only cue could perhaps be when the pleasant Paris controllers contact me on VHF2 Guard. So yes, I do have a general awareness of crossing FIRs and when I should expect a handover, but what about in between?
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Old 13th May 2016, 06:16
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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On the 747-400 there is no squelch button or knob, but if you press and hold down the , i.e. VHF 1 button for a second or two, you get the squelch function. Ergo, can now listen a little further away than you normally would.

As for the morons that yap away on guard, I will have no sympathy for them if someday they find themselves in need of assistance and find none.

If you want to yap, use 123.45. Stay off of guard unless you truly need it.
I really wish the Brits would have a dedicated practice frequency. The volume is practically turned off all the way across England. England is by far the worst area in the world for un-necessary noise on guard.
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Old 13th May 2016, 09:54
  #116 (permalink)  

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Flying over France, where the boundaries are often miles apart, if VHF1 fails, then my only cue could perhaps be when the pleasant Paris controllers contact me on VHF2 Guard. So yes, I do have a general awareness of crossing FIRs and when I should expect a handover, but what about in between?
I think an unknown radio failure is slightly different than knowingly running out of radio range and taking no action yourself

As you are so situationally aware, wouldn't it be better when you are at the 'expected point' to give a call to say you are changing frequency? Surely you don't leave everything for ATC to do for you

Better to have dialled up an ATCU you are flying towards, than one you are out of range of and flying away from
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Old 13th May 2016, 09:59
  #117 (permalink)  

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The radios that I've used in recent years don't have a squelch control or squelch override button.

Silsoesid, in short. There is no squelch on the aircraft I fly. So despite being one of those spiky haired iCadets everyone hates so much, yes I do know from a previous type how to use squelch, unfortunately I cannot.

Airbubba & RHS, if you don't mind me asking, which radios do you use?
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Old 13th May 2016, 13:47
  #118 (permalink)  

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I really wish the Brits would have a dedicated practice frequency. The volume is practically turned off all the way across England. England is by far the worst area in the world for un-necessary noise on guard.
I'd agree about the practice frequency but 123.45 is allocated elsewhere, as per the CAA memo (FODCOM) issued some time ago.

However, I'm repeating myself but speaking as a UK based ATPL holder, the majority of "incorrect" calls I hear on 121.5 in lower airspace come from airline pilots who incompetently select the incorrect frequency and seem to think they are speaking to a handling agency. I heard three such calls in a one hour trip over central UK earlier this week - so whatever happened to the basic principles of proper r/t use? It's certainly more common to hear this type of inadvertent call these days, rather than (fully legal, authorised and correct) "practice pan" calls that some airline pilots themselves get so upset about.

Is there something difficult about modern airliner radio boxes which makes incorrect selections more likely, or is it a training issue?
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Old 13th May 2016, 13:58
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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England is by far the worst area in the world for un-necessary noise on guard.
Absolutely untrue. Aside from the occasional practice pan, it is quiet. The cat-calling and childish behaviour is almost always in French airspace.

Since the advent of FMC and EFIS and relying on these items rather than looking at charts the level of situational awareness has decreased
In my much derided airline we have numerous procedures to guard against PLOC. For instance, our PLOGs clearly delineate FIRs and it is SOP to note boundaries in the FMC so as to provide reminders. But, yes, paper charts are so rarely referenced that many newbies are unaware of the wealth of information therein.

Are there certain geographical points where this is more likely to happen
That's a good question. Again, in my airline, we have been provided with charts showing where PLOC has occurred over the preceding years. The key hotspot is the boundary between Rhine and Maastricht airspace in western Germany. Another is between Bordeaux and Madrid in the Biscay. I'm sure there are many.
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Old 13th May 2016, 13:59
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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Is there something difficult about modern airliner radio boxes which makes incorrect selections more likely, or is it a training issue?
Part of it is definitely joking-in of greenhorns, cant count how many times I heard colleagues chat about the "call company on 121dot5 to the newbie" joke ... just ignore it, it IS infantile and more common in specific geos of the world then others.
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