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The morons on 121.5. Authorities please act!

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The morons on 121.5. Authorities please act!

Old 29th May 2016, 22:43
  #181 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer
Isn't 1200 still "autonomous fighter operations" in the UK?
Could be. Are you aware that the word of aviation doesn't end at the borders of the UK? There's a whole wide world out there beyond the UK, and people fly airplanes in it. In a good portion of it, a 1200 code is an uncontrolled VFR squawk
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Old 29th May 2016, 22:49
  #182 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
Originally Posted by JW411
Probably for the same reason that the US Military are still using floppy disks.
Actually, they aren't. What is being done is CD Media are being used to get around the vulnerability that USB ports created. not Floppy disks, per se.
Actually, they are. They're talking about computers which are pre-USB, and pre-diskette, even.
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Old 1st Jun 2016, 20:04
  #183 (permalink)  
 
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An interesting thread one which I have read from start to finnish. I do apologise if this has been suggested earlier.

The problems:
1. Idiot pilots misusing 121.5.
2. Multiple Practice Pan / Training Fix calls.
3. Misuse of 121.5 by ground based idiots.

The worries:
1. Turning down or turning off 121.5 and missing an important call.
2. Missing a frequency change, running out of radio range and becoming an intercept target.

My suggested solution:
Have a system where civilian aircraft have an internationally used frequency on which they can only RECEIVE messages. The only agencies that can TRANSMIT on that frequency are ATC and Military Aircraft. Pilots monitor this frequency and do not need to monitor 121.5 - let the ATC units that have the need to, do that.

Problem 1 no longer a problem
Problem 2 no longer a problem
Problem 3 still there but as the misuse is ground-based it will be temporary and hopefully easily traceable if reported as a frequent occurrence.

If you happen to wander on in silence then you will eventually hear a call directed at you ( hopefully you can remember your callsign) and the gentle reminder that you need to be talking to someone on 118.5. You can then make that change and apologise profusely. Alternatively, you can wait till the Typhoon pitches up and talks to you a little more sternly suggesting 118.5 or over the North Sea is the place to be.

Surely this is not beyond our current capabilities.

Thoughts?
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 10:24
  #184 (permalink)  
 
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...and still have 121.5 on the back-up Comm 2 ready to transmit in case of own emergency? Not a bad idea.

The only other issue is that it's still very worthwhile aircraft having 121.5 monitored as they are usually in VHF range of any aircraft in distress where earthbound ATC units are not - aircraft have a far greater chance of hearing a distress call.
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 13:30
  #185 (permalink)  
 
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A valid point to consider, however not a showstopper by any means.
Where the a/c are receiving numerous distracting practice calls on 121.5 then the transmitting aircraft will, in all probability, be in the vicinity of a ground station. Therefore nothing is lost by turning down the volume of 121.5.

In remote areas you can still do your bit by listening out on 121.5 and if idiots insist on playing games then you can turn the box down until it is quiet again or you can leave it turned down knowing that if a professional wants to talk to you urgently he can do so from his console (ATC) or the cockpit of his armed fighter (QRA); either way, you are not in jeopardy.
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Old 3rd Jun 2016, 05:07
  #186 (permalink)  

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An alternative solution....

Build a bridge and get over it.
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Old 3rd Jun 2016, 19:40
  #187 (permalink)  
 
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Another alternative would be, grow up & behave as though they deserve to hold the licence.
Some of us GA "toy aeroplane flyers" are under the obviously mistaken naive notion that 121.5 is there to help us WHEN we DO need it.
I had no idea that professional pilots were such a load of utter pillocks.
After reading this lot I will never look at a professional ATPL the same way.
A. Total. Prat. Licence. Nearer the mark.
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Old 3rd Jun 2016, 20:56
  #188 (permalink)  
 
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Last night listened to a conversation between London and a light aircraft who was lost over Wales and low on fuel. Controller id his position and guided him to the closest airport.
Utterly professional
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Old 4th Jun 2016, 01:15
  #189 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Crash one
Another alternative would be, grow up & behave as though they deserve to hold the licence.
Some of us GA "toy aeroplane flyers" are under the obviously mistaken naive notion that 121.5 is there to help us WHEN we DO need it.
I had no idea that professional pilots were such a load of utter pillocks.
After reading this lot I will never look at a professional ATPL the same way.
A. Total. Prat. Licence. Nearer the mark.
Way to go there, displaying your own maturity ;-).

Honestly, the guy above you had a bit of a point. There are not many, if any, "foolproof" systems that have not seen a fool prove it wasn't... Or in other words, all the new systems and ways to handle this that you can dream up are very nice. But idiots will find ways to be idiots.

And though the idiots are generally but a small fraction of us "prats", like in many other aspects of life, the few ruin it for the many.
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Old 5th Jun 2016, 19:15
  #190 (permalink)  
 
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Angry

I once listened on Guard to a single-engine ditching in progress in the Bahamas where a United pilot was trying to fix his position for the Coast Guard and advise him on ditching preparations so he wouldn't forget as he nursed a failing engine along.

Every time there was a break in the transmissions, some idiot or another would start screaming, "Guard!"

The Guard Nazis need to get their heads out of their arses.

The next time 121.5 is filled with juvenile chatter, I'm going to advise ATC that we are no longer monitoring due to frequency congestion.
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Old 5th Jun 2016, 19:57
  #191 (permalink)  
 
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One wonders what the "on guard' muppet was doing at the beginning of the conversation. If he had been truly monitoring and listening he would have been aware what was going on. To jump in at the latter stages with such an unsympathetic comment and lack of understanding would be enough to cause some 'bleeps' on the radio frequency. I might start with," pilot calling 'on guard' please identify yourself." They would not know if you were ATC or not. You might just get a response to allow an ID and when it's all over you can make a targeted comment.
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Old 6th Jun 2016, 06:25
  #192 (permalink)  
 
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I know that it's an anathema to many pilots, but if whilst using guard for it's designated purpose the words 'mayday' or 'pan' are used correctly, the world will know that the use of guard is not accidental.
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Old 7th Jun 2016, 20:53
  #193 (permalink)  
 
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Problem is that aircraft declared PAN or MAYDAY, starts to get things sorted with the ATC unit that has picked up the message, meanwhile numpty closing at 500kts comes into range and starts shouting "you're on guard". We used to always prefix the callsigns with Pan or Mayday throughout the emergency so that everyone knew what was happening.
I understand that now this is just a discretionary thing. Is that correct?
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Old 7th Jun 2016, 23:40
  #194 (permalink)  
 
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AKAAB, I think that is a good idea. If enough of us declare we've stopped listening to 121.5 over ATC freq it could cause congestion. Perhaps once it starts causing ATC problems they will make the effort to triangulate/ report those responsible.
I heard Maastricht triangulate a Dutch aircraft a few days ago for music being transmitted from their location on 121.5. This proves at least some are able to triangulate.
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Old 8th Jun 2016, 01:14
  #195 (permalink)  
 
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You know, if I'm in an emergency and some moron yells "Guard" while I'm trying to get help, I have a little phrase that I can use to tell them to shove it... SEELONCE MAYDAY. Quite useful really. I know the station in distress is supposed to say it, but I'd be up for another pilot doing it on my behalf.

We used to always prefix the callsigns with Pan or Mayday throughout the emergency so that everyone knew what was happening.
I understand that now this is just a discretionary thing. Is that correct?
SATCOS - here in Canada that is a requirement as described in RIC-21, 6.13 Distress Traffic where it states:

In distress traffic, the distress signal “MAYDAY”, spoken once, shall precede all transmissions. This procedure is intended to alert stations not aware of the initial distress call and now monitoring the distress channel that traffic heard relates to a distress situation.
However, actually getting pilots to transmit a Distress Message in the first place is like trying to pull teeth.
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Old 8th Jun 2016, 04:40
  #196 (permalink)  
 
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From the UK CAP413:-

Following the initial distress or urgency message, it is permissible for pilots and controllers to use ‘MAYDAY’ and ‘PAN’ as a callsign prefix at their discretion, where it is judged that this would have a beneficial effect on the outcome.
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Old 8th Jun 2016, 15:52
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Wow! Is this complete nonsense 'guard-police' discussion still ongoing?

Some people need to get a life and focus on the more important things in aviation such as fatigue!

Perhaps the increase in fatigue and the deterioration of our profession are the reasons of so many pilots having a brain fart and transmitting on the wrong frequency in the first place?
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Old 9th Jun 2016, 10:03
  #198 (permalink)  
 
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I was recently at an assessment day for a fairly large airline. In the waiting area where we were all congregating between tests / exercises / interviews I was listening to a couple of pilots in their twenties from a certain low cost carrier joking about making noises, jokes etc on 121.5. I was thinking, come on guys, really? And if you do do that, is here the place to admit it? Wonder how they got on?
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Old 9th Jun 2016, 10:34
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Originally Posted by LLuCCiFeR
Wow! Is this complete nonsense 'guard-police' discussion still ongoing?

Some people need to get a life and focus on the more important things in aviation such as fatigue!

Perhaps the increase in fatigue and the deterioration of our profession are the reasons of so many pilots having a brain fart and transmitting on the wrong frequency in the first place?
The point has been missed, perhaps due to the aforementioned fatigue.

What I see bieng discussed as a problem is not accidental transmission on guard but the deliberate and childish act that is akin to internet trolling. Internet trolling is an annoyance, misuse of guard frequency could have fatal consequences. Sadly, whilst people like Capt Claret above have that attitude then nothing will change. I do hope he has nothing at all to do with pilot training.
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 10:45
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Exclamation

Misuse of International Aeronautical Emergency Frequency 121.5 MHz - SKYbrary Aviation Safety

Safety Reminder Message

Misuse of International Aeronautical Emergency Frequency 121.5 MHz

Date: 19 June 2012
Synopsis

The EUROCONTROL Agency has been notified on numerous occasions about the misuse of the international aeronautical emergency frequency, 121.5MHz, most recently involving inappropriate ‘chat’ related to the ongoing EURO 2012 football championship.
ICAO Provisions


ICAO Annex 10, Volume V, § 4.1.3.1.1 states that frequency 121.5 MHz “shall be used only for genuine emergency purposes” broadly covering the following activities:
  • The handling of an emergency situations;
  • air-ground communication with aircraft with airborne equipment failure;
  • search and rescue operations and the operation of emergency locator transmitters (ELTs); and
  • air policing/interception action.
Note: Some states have filed differences to ICAO SARPs related to the use of 121.5 MHz - for instance, in the UK it can also be used for practice PAN calls to ensure pilot familiarity with the process. Such differences are detailed in national AIPs.
Analysis

Inappropriate ‘chat’ on 121.5 MHz could interfere with its legitimate use and should be avoided in order to maintain the integrity of the frequency for the purposes for which it is intended.
Your Attention Is Required
  • Aircraft operators are invited to remind their flight crews about the correct use of the international aeronautical emergency frequency, 121.5MHz, according to ICAO/national requirements and company policy.
  • Air Navigation Service Providers and State Aviation Authorities are invited to note the subject and share their experience with similar cases.
Further Reading
  • ICAO Annex 10, Vol V.
  • Request for Support Message, “Guarding 121.5 MHz”, 12 March 2007.
Disclaimer

© European Organisation for Safety of Air Navigation (EUROCONTROL) June 2012. This alert is published by EUROCONTROL for information purposes. It may be copied in whole or in part, provided that EUROCONTROL is mentioned as the source and to the extent justified by the non-commercial use (not for sale). The information in this document may not be modified without prior written permission from EUROCONTROL. The use of the document is at the user’s sole risk and responsibility. EUROCONTROL expressly disclaim any and all warranties with respect to any content within the alert, express or implied.
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