B-738 Crash in Russia Rostov-on-Don
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The go around was initiated fairly early, what could have been the reason, other than wx.
I`d suggest the start of the causal sequence chain was in the intermediate approach phase. The crew reacted by throwing away the landing and taking the problem back up to resolve it. If indeed the issue was stab trim related then flap down selection would have exacerbated it by the ensuing pitch down, which with a locked nose down pitch trim and the high energy of the go around and the normal crew reaction of reducing thrust, with an underwing engined aircraft, would also add the nose down pitch angle.
In such a scenario I cannot see how fault and error may be attributable to crew error.
I`d suggest the start of the causal sequence chain was in the intermediate approach phase. The crew reacted by throwing away the landing and taking the problem back up to resolve it. If indeed the issue was stab trim related then flap down selection would have exacerbated it by the ensuing pitch down, which with a locked nose down pitch trim and the high energy of the go around and the normal crew reaction of reducing thrust, with an underwing engined aircraft, would also add the nose down pitch angle.
In such a scenario I cannot see how fault and error may be attributable to crew error.
Somatogravic illusion of climb while pitched down
SLFstu's link to Performing Safe Goarounds:
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aer...ERO_2014q3.pdf
includes a short basic tutorial on instrument scan.
Interestingly it comments that acceleration while pitched down creates the illusion of a climb
The article describes a number of pitch down incidents where the crew recovered at low altitude and one that did not recover in time.
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aer...ERO_2014q3.pdf
includes a short basic tutorial on instrument scan.
Interestingly it comments that acceleration while pitched down creates the illusion of a climb
The article describes a number of pitch down incidents where the crew recovered at low altitude and one that did not recover in time.
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Video of a runway stabiliser in a 737CL simulator
Last edited by Katzenjammer kid; 27th Mar 2016 at 21:38.
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But the bus is in normal law 99.9999% of the time and has saved MANY people from screw ups that a 737 cant save you from.
“Yes, because the best solution for pilots loosing basic stick and rudder skills is to just put a computer to do that for them…..”
What is a better solution? Removing technology that provides protection?
“Yes, because the best solution for pilots loosing basic stick and rudder skills is to just put a computer to do that for them…..”
What is a better solution? Removing technology that provides protection?
Be careful with your arguments you may end up as employable as elevator operators.
stab problem other than surface ice
Salute!
How come no one here has looked back at the Norwegian incident with the 737?
ASN News » Report: Frozen elevator nearly puts Boeing 737-800 into a stall
There is more than one way to have frozen stuff kill you. Once even had ice crystals in my hydraulics that kept a main gear up!
worth thinking about...
How come no one here has looked back at the Norwegian incident with the 737?
ASN News » Report: Frozen elevator nearly puts Boeing 737-800 into a stall
There is more than one way to have frozen stuff kill you. Once even had ice crystals in my hydraulics that kept a main gear up!
worth thinking about...
Video of a runway stabiliser in a 737CL simulator.
Instead the LH seat operator wasted what could be critical time making feeble hand movements on the top of the stab trim wheel like a PPL and his Cessna. If that is supposed to be an official published "training" film then the Regulatory authority needs to audit the series published by the film makers.
N4790P
As the same Regulatory Authority approves their ATO for Type Ratings across 10 different aircraft types utilising 65 different FSTDs located across 20 facilities in 16 different countries, I wouldn't hold out much for competent audits!!!
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Sorry but this vid seems not to be real, it is just physically impossible IMO
What makes you think that it was a certified flight sim, and not some home-based FSX/Prepar3d toy?
N4790P
Sunamer,
Flight Simulators (apart from BITD) are never certified, they are always uniquely qualified.
What makes you think that it was a certified flight sim, and not some home-based FSX/Prepar3d toy?
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Kommersant newspaper published article about "pilot disagreement which led to disaster" today. It sounds crazy.
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Fantastic article on pitch trim and I believe scenario #1 is a distinct possibility.
http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/2627.pdf
http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/2627.pdf
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"According to preliminary data, they quarreled, and at the same time pulling the steering wheels in opposite directions, which is why passenger plane went into a dive and crashed."
from:http://www.dni.ru/society/2016/3/28/332211.html
So, we got some kind of 'dual input' here. Unbelievable.
from:http://www.dni.ru/society/2016/3/28/332211.html
So, we got some kind of 'dual input' here. Unbelievable.
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More quotes, from http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2949365:
"Its elevator [I think they meant "stick" here] was set for a dive, while the stabilizer was exerting an opposing force, making the plane's nose point up". (???)
"The plane's computer began to receive electric signals from all actions performed by pilots on both yokes; normally the yokes work synchronously."
"In the previous landing attempts, autothrottle wasn't working well."
And they point to high AoA on GA and stall as the cause of the crash.
It's a bad, bad, bad case of garbled transmission - I assume someone close to investigation *is* informing the media, but is explaining the findings in layman's terms. The media, in turn, thinks those aren't layman's enough for the general public... and in total absence of technical knowledge, kills it completely.
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737 er it is a great article, if the airplane is being hand flown this combined with a disorienting somatogravic illusion would test any pilot to their limits, at 4am in the morning after a long duty day this would be beyond most of us surely.
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Bank Angle
Sorry, but why do you speculate about tailplane icing and, stab out of trim?
The Plane impacted with massive bank angle!
Pitch authority problems alone almost allways result in nearly wings level CFIT.
The Plane impacted with massive bank angle!
Pitch authority problems alone almost allways result in nearly wings level CFIT.