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Thailand Downgraded to Category 2 by the FAA

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Thailand Downgraded to Category 2 by the FAA

Old 3rd Dec 2015, 00:11
  #21 (permalink)  
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However, Delta does sell on Garuda flights. You can book Delta Seattle/Jakarta and the second leg is operated by Garuda.
I meant in the context of codeshares, since there is no interline restrictions under FAA IASA.

E.g., the Delta leg from the US to Haneda are codeshared with Garuda. E.g., DL636 is also sold as GA9506.

But the Garuda legs are not sold as Delta codeshares, so the second leg from Haneda to Jakarta will not have a DL flight number.
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Old 3rd Dec 2015, 00:19
  #22 (permalink)  
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If I am not mistaken, the the operations of operators from countries designated by the FAA as Category 2, may not expand operations beyond the level at the time of that designation. The FAA does not deny continuation of the operations already approved.
You are correct. Unfortunately, the Thai "Prime Minister" does not seem to appreciate that the main issue is with the regulatory oversight, not necessarily with the aviation 'industry' at large. It was only a few weeks ago that the head of the civil aviation was sacked, and replaced by a functionary who had once worked at the Ministry of Transport a few years ago She stated that it would all be put right in a 'few months'. This was probably be seen as having 'addressed' the issue. .
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Old 3rd Dec 2015, 00:46
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So are there any Thai airlines actually flying to the US and/or codesharing with a US airline currently?

If not the Category 2 designation is kinda moot, at least until EASA follows this move.

Thai Airways used to fly to a few US cities and had codeshares with United at one point, but I believe they've dropped all of those routes?
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Old 3rd Dec 2015, 16:09
  #24 (permalink)  
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Thumbs down

A few years ago 5 out of 6 DGCA inspectors were Ex Thai airways pilots. OT regularly cheated on aircraft logbooks, and almost all operational rules, like duty times, aircraft limitations, etc.
It was clear that the DGCA inspectors knew what was happening.
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Old 3rd Dec 2015, 23:55
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The comments about Thai commercial aviation being compared to North Korean and Indonesian commercial aviation by the US FAA are humorous, but in a very sad way.

Point attention elsewhere, distract, sideline the conversation.... That's seems to be the way.

In this case, someone has decided to suggest North Korea (North Korea??!!) and Indonesia should be downgraded ahead of Thailand. Just to know, the US FAA agrees with you. Indonesia is already category 2 and North Korea is not rated and therefore North Korean commercial aircraft are not allowed to enter US airspace.

Thailand was downgraded to category 2 by the US FAA and red flagged by ICAO for cause. Deal with the facts. Stop looking for someone else to blame.
I know your posting history and your history of advocating against OTG and you've done some very valuable work. I've been reading it here and elsewhere for years.

That said, don't kneejerk like this. The overall point is valid. India just got upgraded to category 1 this year. The FAA is (in theory) a standards-based organization, not an advocacy organization, and it carries a lot of weight. I don't want Thai carriers to be safe but Indian carriers to be not-safe because of politics. I understand you care primarily only about Orient-Thai and the authorities overseeing its regulation, but some of us have to fly other places sometimes.

Anyway, keep the fire burning, but choose your battles better. No one here is a paid representative of the junta trolling to distract, no matter how often you see that pattern on FB and wherever else.


As to the larger issue, what's actually an interesting indicator of here in Thailand are probably the limits of power of the junta in the face of more powerful political figures. I doubt they care very much about aviation safety and more than they care about "reform before democracy" but that's true of every government here. What is telling, though, is that this is the *third* international media embarrassment on this exact same issue after which nothing has been accomplished.

Typically, after any international criticism that's got sustained political weight behind it (so, anti-trafficking: yes, Burmese being blamed for every high profile crime: no) there's a brief period of local protest by wealthy Bangkokians and their relatives and maids at an embassy that follows the hilarious "stay out of are buzines thailand is not you're country we r thai go home (etc etc)!!!" pattern followed by these people getting back in their American and European cars, driving home and saying nothing while actual action by the people in charge behind the scenes to ameliorate the situation is taken in conjunction with the international party who is applying the pressure. Even if someone doesn't believe this on its face, evidence of it was clear in the wikileaks cable dump for Thailand. Everyone here talks to US officials about everything all the time, and most of them play both sides of the fence (as in most countries) to stay in power.

Just for example recently, doing *anything* about trafficking - and there has been actual progress there - though, as usual, in fits and starts, involved a lot more shady people and major industry downstream blowback than addressing these aviation concerns which the government already theoretically controls. One wonders, then, why this particular event didn't follow the pattern of public yammering and private action when they absolutely knew for months and months and months that it was going to end in, effectively, a set of sanctions and/or bans by two of the three largest economies in the world.

Hell, just yesterday the same government gave the Chinese the finger on the high speed rail deal over the terms of the deal and has put that relationship on ice, which was what the US and EU wanted, in addition to the trafficking actions and other things. It's not as if they're disinterested in remaining relevant politically and economically in the world and this one was much easier to address than some other issues the international community is pissy about (see the money laundering concerns and so on).

Anyway, I suspect something will be done now that all the options are exhausted!
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Old 4th Dec 2015, 10:51
  #26 (permalink)  
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I'm quite amazed at all the anti TG comments. Ignoring the so called corruption and nepotism issues which are issues that are dragging them down commercially, their fleet is modern, their service in comparison to many, many carriers is far superior and the (now renamed CAAT) oversight issues are not of their making.

The major issue over the ease at which AOCs are handed out is again not of their making. IMHO both TG and BKP are being unfairly caught up in this and both will unfairly suffer.

The likes of the LCCs that principally operate out of VTBD won't be overly impacted, yet they are the real problem.
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