Thailand Downgraded to Category 2 by the FAA
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Thailand Downgraded to Category 2 by the FAA
Thailand has been downgraded to Category 2 by the FAA.
ICAO and the FAA appear to have finally had their fill of the corruption, incompetence and accident rate "overseen" by the Thai Department of Civil aviation. First ICAO censured Thailand, and now the US FAA has downgraded the country's aviation to match that of most of Africa.
What this means: US passengers will be warned that aviation on Thai-based airlines is unsafe. Bookings will be impacted. More significantly, Thai-based airlines in the US will not be able to expand or alter their schedule or equipment in the US unless their rating is returned to Category 1. (The US FAA tends to review a country every 5-10 years.)
We, SLF, thank the pprune community for your support. These safety findings and the limitations they put on the expansion efforts of Thai-based operators would not have been possible without you.
Information:
The crash and aftermath of Orient Thai's One-Two-Go
ICAO Red Flags Thailand June 2015
The FAA Downgrades Thailand December 2015
Also you can search pprune for Orient Thai & One-Two-Go to read of a single (tiny) carrier's history of crashes and near misses.
ICAO and the FAA appear to have finally had their fill of the corruption, incompetence and accident rate "overseen" by the Thai Department of Civil aviation. First ICAO censured Thailand, and now the US FAA has downgraded the country's aviation to match that of most of Africa.
What this means: US passengers will be warned that aviation on Thai-based airlines is unsafe. Bookings will be impacted. More significantly, Thai-based airlines in the US will not be able to expand or alter their schedule or equipment in the US unless their rating is returned to Category 1. (The US FAA tends to review a country every 5-10 years.)
We, SLF, thank the pprune community for your support. These safety findings and the limitations they put on the expansion efforts of Thai-based operators would not have been possible without you.
Information:
The crash and aftermath of Orient Thai's One-Two-Go
ICAO Red Flags Thailand June 2015
The FAA Downgrades Thailand December 2015
Also you can search pprune for Orient Thai & One-Two-Go to read of a single (tiny) carrier's history of crashes and near misses.
Code Share flights on Thai Airways?
It would be worth staying aware of who code shares with Thai.
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Left Behind, but Where?
ICAO's thematic initiative, under the banner of "No Country Left Behind," is targeted at significantly improving -- if not improving maximally -- the compliance of all signatory States to the Chicago Convention of 1944 with the Organization's SARPs and related safety-related programmatic initiatives. Let's hope there isn't any back-sliding or back-tracking when someone whose ox has been gored by this action, claims that the Organization's action improperly leaves Thailand behind.
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All Politics is Local
In fact, Indonesia is campaigning - if you can call it that - for a seat on the ICAO Council (tantamount to a governing board of the Organization) in the next Council election cycle; at the recent 2015 World Aviation Forum at ICAO world hq in Montreal, individuals apparently affiliated with Indonesia's civil aviation authority were dispensing literature promoting their country's civil aviation sector and swag too (including a really nice USB drive).
Why not Indonesia and North Korea?
From the FAA website: "Under the International Aviation Safety Assessment (IASA) program, the FAA determines whether another country’s oversight of its air carriers that operate, or seek to operate, into the U.S., or codeshare with a U.S. air carrier, complies with safety standards established by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO)."
From the FAA website: "Under the International Aviation Safety Assessment (IASA) program, the FAA determines whether another country’s oversight of its air carriers that operate, or seek to operate, into the U.S., or codeshare with a U.S. air carrier, complies with safety standards established by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO)."
It would be worth staying aware of who code shares with Thai.
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A tiny bit off-topic in a aviation forum I'm afraid, but this certainly will fuel the anti-american demonstrations that have been recently staged after comments made by a US diplomat (ambassador itself?) about Thailand's ridiculous lese-majeste laws.
"No Escape" scenario brewing up slowly in Thailand?
Back to topic: Thai Airways International has been on the edge of bankrupcy for quite a while now. Way too much money wasted in corruption, kickbacks and free flights for the "elite" plus friends and relatives. Although they still probably are much safer to fly than the local LCCs, I avoid them like the plague. Their service sucks anyway.
"No Escape" scenario brewing up slowly in Thailand?
Back to topic: Thai Airways International has been on the edge of bankrupcy for quite a while now. Way too much money wasted in corruption, kickbacks and free flights for the "elite" plus friends and relatives. Although they still probably are much safer to fly than the local LCCs, I avoid them like the plague. Their service sucks anyway.
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Prayuth Orders Immediate Improvement Of Aviation Industry
Prime Minister Gen Prayut Chan-o-cha said today he has ordered immediate improvements of the country's aviation industry after the industry was downgraded by the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).
Upon his arrival at Suvarnabhumi airport before dawn today from the Paris global warming summit, Gen Prayut said he was aware of the FAA’s downgrade two days ago and has ordered immediate improvements in the industry.
They were ordered to look into which points that needed to be resolved, he said and asked that the media stopped to expand the issue further.
He also blamed the present dispute in the country in which many people were quarrelling each other and wasting time on useless issues that do no good to the country and economy.
He asked all to stop and let relevant agencies to resolve the problems.
PM orders immediate improvements of aviation industry - Thai PBS English News
Prime Minister Gen Prayut Chan-o-cha said today he has ordered immediate improvements of the country's aviation industry after the industry was downgraded by the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).
Upon his arrival at Suvarnabhumi airport before dawn today from the Paris global warming summit, Gen Prayut said he was aware of the FAA’s downgrade two days ago and has ordered immediate improvements in the industry.
They were ordered to look into which points that needed to be resolved, he said and asked that the media stopped to expand the issue further.
He also blamed the present dispute in the country in which many people were quarrelling each other and wasting time on useless issues that do no good to the country and economy.
He asked all to stop and let relevant agencies to resolve the problems.
PM orders immediate improvements of aviation industry - Thai PBS English News
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They were ordered to look into which points that needed to be resolved, he said and asked that the media stopped to expand the issue further.
But those who are suggesting Thailand has been selected as an easier target than others who should be downgraded as well, with Indonesia and Nigeria sharing the lead in that field, are right.
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The comments about Thai commercial aviation being compared to North Korean and Indonesian commercial aviation by the US FAA are humorous, but in a very sad way.
Point attention elsewhere, distract, sideline the conversation.... That's seems to be the way.
In this case, someone has decided to suggest North Korea (North Korea??!!) and Indonesia should be downgraded ahead of Thailand. Just to know, the US FAA agrees with you. Indonesia is already category 2 and North Korea is not rated and therefore North Korean commercial aircraft are not allowed to enter US airspace.
Thailand was downgraded to category 2 by the US FAA and red flagged by ICAO for cause. Deal with the facts. Stop looking for someone else to blame.
Point attention elsewhere, distract, sideline the conversation.... That's seems to be the way.
In this case, someone has decided to suggest North Korea (North Korea??!!) and Indonesia should be downgraded ahead of Thailand. Just to know, the US FAA agrees with you. Indonesia is already category 2 and North Korea is not rated and therefore North Korean commercial aircraft are not allowed to enter US airspace.
Thailand was downgraded to category 2 by the US FAA and red flagged by ICAO for cause. Deal with the facts. Stop looking for someone else to blame.
Last edited by InvestigateUdom; 2nd Dec 2015 at 12:15.
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Yup, Indonesia was downgraded to Category 2, since 2007. But Indonesia's new President is determined to improve transportation safety, so getting back to Category 1 (full ICAO compliance) is currently one of the highest priorities for the Minister of Transport.
Earlier this year Indonesia signed a "Memorandum of Understanding" with the US to modernize the country's aviation sector. An FAA team has been working with the Indonesian regulator (DGCA) over the summer to identify key areas for improvements.
Indonesia's bid for a seat on the ICAO Council is also seen as a good thing -- it is another reason they are working hard to improve air safety.
So despite huge problems Indonesia is seen as a country that's trying (albeit slowly) to improve things. They're not going to get there overnight. They have a ton of cultural, structural and bureaucratic issues to solve.
Unfortunately Thailand seems to be working backwards at this point, due to the domestic political situation.
Earlier this year Indonesia signed a "Memorandum of Understanding" with the US to modernize the country's aviation sector. An FAA team has been working with the Indonesian regulator (DGCA) over the summer to identify key areas for improvements.
Indonesia's bid for a seat on the ICAO Council is also seen as a good thing -- it is another reason they are working hard to improve air safety.
So despite huge problems Indonesia is seen as a country that's trying (albeit slowly) to improve things. They're not going to get there overnight. They have a ton of cultural, structural and bureaucratic issues to solve.
Unfortunately Thailand seems to be working backwards at this point, due to the domestic political situation.
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And what is the stance of EASA & EU? It would be odd if they did not support FAA. However, if they arrive at a different conclusion they would need to explain why. Equally, I wonder if FAA discussed this with their worldwide counterparts first. It would not be good CRM, sorry politics, to drop such a bombshell out of the blue.
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No doubt the EU will add Thailand to their list in the next issue. They have a dilemma as that will ban all Thai airlines from operating to/from the EU.
They could give an exemption for TG for some/all of their aircraft, but this would require an evaluation of TG's procedures.
Of course TG is an airbus (and Boeing) customer.
They could give an exemption for TG for some/all of their aircraft, but this would require an evaluation of TG's procedures.
Of course TG is an airbus (and Boeing) customer.
Yup, Indonesia was downgraded to Category 2, since 2007. But Indonesia's new President is determined to improve transportation safety, so getting back to Category 1 (full ICAO compliance) is currently one of the highest priorities for the Minister of Transport.
If I am not mistaken, the the operations of operators from countries designated by the FAA as Category 2, may not expand operations beyond the level at the time of that designation. The FAA does not deny continuation of the operations already approved.
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As far as I know, Garuda does not currently fly to the US, nor does it operate any codeshares with Delta. (All the codeshares are operated by Delta).
I.e., Garuda sells seats on Delta-operated flights to/from the US (between Haneda and LAX/SEA), but Delta does not sell seats on Garuda-operated flights.
Garuda is keen to resume flights from Jakarta to Los Angeles on Boeing equipment, so Boeing is a key partner in getting Indonesia back to Category I status.
Thai Airways is a Star Alliance member, and as GlobalNav mentioned, under the rules Thai can keep flying to the US and keep its existing codeshares, but Thai may not expand services to/from the US.
I.e., Garuda sells seats on Delta-operated flights to/from the US (between Haneda and LAX/SEA), but Delta does not sell seats on Garuda-operated flights.
Garuda is keen to resume flights from Jakarta to Los Angeles on Boeing equipment, so Boeing is a key partner in getting Indonesia back to Category I status.
Thai Airways is a Star Alliance member, and as GlobalNav mentioned, under the rules Thai can keep flying to the US and keep its existing codeshares, but Thai may not expand services to/from the US.
I.e., Garuda sells seats on Delta-operated flights to/from the US (between Haneda and LAX/SEA), but Delta does not sell seats on Garuda-operated flights.
However, Delta does sell on Garuda flights. You can book Delta Seattle/Jakarta and the second leg is operated by Garuda.