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Metrojet crash Eygpt

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Metrojet crash Eygpt

Old 14th Dec 2015, 15:16
  #201 (permalink)  
 
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Thank you for the correction, Kulverstukas, much appreciated.
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Old 14th Dec 2015, 15:51
  #202 (permalink)  
 
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Egypt says, no evidence of a crime.

Russia claims they have evidence that a bomb was the problem.

What is Airbus saying?

(Credibility: the quality of being believed in)
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Old 14th Dec 2015, 18:09
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Issuance of the Preliminary Report for the Metrojet Russian Airplane accident

Cairo, December 14, 2015


Captain Ayman ElMokaddem, chief of the International investigation committee (Investigator in Charge), investigating the accident of the Metrojet airplane declared that, as a progress in the investigation work, and in accordance with Annex 13 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation ICAO, the committee has finished the "Preliminary Report". This report has been sent to all Accredited Representatives for the States that have the right to participate in the investigation, in addition to the International Civil Aviation Organization ICAO. Captain ElMokaddem added that the report includes 19 typical articles well known in accidents investigations, and includes the preliminary information that is available to the investigation committee up till this date. The report includes also some information that will be subjected to developments through the next phases of investigation. Captain El Mokaddem indicated that the scope of investigation for the wreckage parts has extended for more than 16 kilometers from the main wreckage site. He assured also that the members of the forensic medicine task group within the investigation committee had received the reports regarding the examination of the bodies made by the forensic doctors. The committee is waiting for the comparison reports from the Russian side to identify the victims status after knowing the DNA analysis for their families and kins. The committee received support from Egyptian experts, faculty of engineering, Cairo University for producing photos for the airplane wreckage, using a three dimensional advanced camera, to assist in making a record for the status and shape of the wreckage and its relative positions at the impact site. About 30 working hours were dedicated to this task. In addition, a specialized team from the "Metallurgy Center for Researches and Development" had visited the wreckage site for the visual examination, preparing for the second phase of wreckage analysis after transferring it to Cairo. The committee has offered the full opportunity to all the concerned parties including the insurance company officials and the Russian working team to examine the wreckage at the site. This was done in accordance with the international regulations, before transferring the wreckage from the site for the following investigation phases. Flight Data Recorder FDR information indicated that all the flights made by this airplane, five days before the accident were between Russian airports and Egyptian airports. For the flight just before the accident flight, the airplane departed from Samara Russia and landed in Sharm El Sheik. The system group within the investigation committee, spent about 30 hours in removing 38 computer units belonging to the airplane, in addition to two other computer units belonging to the engines from the wreckage at the accident site. The units had been transferred to Cairo for the purpose of thorough investigation by the specialized task groups. The operation group within the investigation committee, with the Russian side, had examined the pilots’ information related to their flying licenses and their medical check. Detailed examinations of the information related to the pilots training are being done now, after translating this information from the Russian language. The technical status, and the detailed repairs that were carried out on the airplane, its structure, systems and engines since the date of production up to the date of the accident, are being studied now. This study is supported by the relevant airplane technical documents and records delivered from the Russian side. This study needs plenty of time, as the airplane had been produced on 1997. The wreckage group within the investigation committee, and for about 250 working hours, have done an extensive photography, identified the locations, sorted and classified the wreckage parts scattered within the wreckage site, developed a wreckage plan to deduce the different effects on each part of the airplane, linking this with the technical history to use that in the following investigation phase. Work in this area is still under progress. Captain El Mokaddem added that, all the Accredited Representatives representing the states participating in the investigation have been granted all the rights that are defined in Annex 13 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation. Cooperation and communication with them are still in a continuation process to exchange information regarding the accident. Fifteen trips to the wreckage site have been organized by the Egyptian Air force using helicopters. Coordination is still under progress with the Egyptian Army, to benefit from their capabilities so as to transfer the wreckage from the accident site, after completing all the required examinations, and to collect it in a secure place in Cairo that allow the committee to start new phases of investigation. Captain El Mokaddem revealed that, the committee did not receive up till now any information indicating unlawful interference, consequently the committee continues its work regarding the technical investigation.
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Old 14th Dec 2015, 18:41
  #204 (permalink)  
 
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If it was a bomb the evidence should be abundant and conclusive, and it's readily accessible in that barren landscape. The suddenness, flash seen by satellites, and Russian conclusions convinced me. <shrug> Denial is a river that runs thru Egypt.
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Old 14th Dec 2015, 18:54
  #205 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Kulverstukas
It's nothing to do with MAK, bomb "evidence" came from FSB which makes analysis of "samples" collected by EMERCOM rescue team. So it's part of criminal investigation not one carried out under ICAO rules.
and then:
" . . . . the committee did not receive up till now any information indicating unlawful interference, consequently the committee continues its work regarding the technical investigation."
Kulverstukas, do you also read the sentence quoted above from the news item about issuance of the preliminary report to mean that the investigation committee is tacitly (or not so tacitly) stating that it has not received any outputs from the [paraphrasing] analysis by the FSB of samples collected by EMERCOM rescue teams? If that is not how you would read that sentence, then what, if anything, are the investigation authorities in Egypt saying about the subject analysis, samples and so on?
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Old 14th Dec 2015, 19:23
  #206 (permalink)  
 
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I read this as carefully phrased evidence that investigation led by Egyptian officials is carried by them without real cooperation with all other parties presented. And that at least Russia sent separate rescue/investigation team, under EMERCOM control/roof, which carried out it's own investigation.

"This report has been sent to all Accredited Representatives for the States that have the right to participate in the investigation" I read as "this report was composed by Egyptian team and even was not read yet by other countries investigators".
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Old 14th Dec 2015, 20:18
  #207 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PrivtPilotRadarTech
Denial is a river that runs thru Egypt.
Ample precedent to feel that this is happening again thanks to Egyptair 990 investigation's results.

Disappointing, but I do take some encouragement that the investigation is ongoing. Other things may still turn up or present themselves as they probe/analyze deeper.
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Old 15th Dec 2015, 21:43
  #208 (permalink)  
 
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Let's press brake and put it in reverse...


Investigator in Charge: the Investigation Committee of Russian plane has not ruled out any of the assumptions


Cairo, December 15, 2015.

Captain Ayman Al Mokadem, Chief Investigator of the Russian Metrojet accident, said that the Preliminary Report of the Accident released yesterday states that “the committee did not receive up till now any information indicating unlawful interference, consequently the committee is continuing its work regarding the technical investigation”. He added that The Preliminary Report does not refer by any mean to the exclusion of any of the possible scenarios of the crash, and that the Committee has not ruled out any of the assumptions in this regard. Al Mokadem confirms that in case the committee discovers any evidence during the investigation or receives any documented information about unlawful interference, the technical investigation would come to an end as the entire case should be handed over to the Public Prosecutor. Al Mokadem clarifies that the Accident Investigation Committee issued this Preliminary Report in accordance to the Annex number "13" of the International Civil Aviation Organization ICAO after one month of the accident.
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Old 16th Dec 2015, 05:09
  #209 (permalink)  
 
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Well, the report referenced by Kulverstukas was really painful reading.

I've added some paragraph breaks, which help a little bit.

Issuance of the Preliminary Report for the Metrojet Russian Airplane accident

Cairo, December 14, 2015

Captain Ayman ElMokaddem, chief of the International investigation committee (Investigator in Charge), investigating the accident of the Metrojet airplane declared that, as a progress in the investigation work, and in accordance with Annex 13 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation ICAO, the committee has finished the "Preliminary Report".

This report has been sent to all Accredited Representatives for the States that have the right to participate in the investigation, in addition to the International Civil Aviation Organization ICAO.

Captain ElMokaddem added that the report includes 19 typical articles well known in accidents investigations, and includes the preliminary information that is available to the investigation committee up till this date. The report includes also some information that will be subjected to developments through the next phases of investigation.

Captain El Mokaddem indicated that the scope of investigation for the wreckage parts has extended for more than 16 kilometers from the main wreckage site. He assured also that the members of the forensic medicine task group within the investigation committee had received the reports regarding the examination of the bodies made by the forensic doctors. The committee is waiting for the comparison reports from the Russian side to identify the victims status after knowing the DNA analysis for their families and kins.

The committee received support from Egyptian experts, faculty of engineering, Cairo University for producing photos for the airplane wreckage, using a three dimensional advanced camera, to assist in making a record for the status and shape of the wreckage and its relative positions at the impact site. About 30 working hours were dedicated to this task. In addition, a specialized team from the "Metallurgy Center for Researches and Development" had visited the wreckage site for the visual examination, preparing for the second phase of wreckage analysis after transferring it to Cairo.

The committee has offered the full opportunity to all the concerned parties including the insurance company officials and the Russian working team to examine the wreckage at the site. This was done in accordance with the international regulations, before transferring the wreckage from the site for the following investigation phases.

Flight Data Recorder FDR information indicated that all the flights made by this airplane, five days before the accident were between Russian airports and Egyptian airports. For the flight just before the accident flight, the airplane departed from Samara Russia and landed in Sharm El Sheik.

The system group within the investigation committee, spent about 30 hours in removing 38 computer units belonging to the airplane, in addition to two other computer units belonging to the engines from the wreckage at the accident site. The units had been transferred to Cairo for the purpose of thorough investigation by the specialized task groups.

The operation group within the investigation committee, with the Russian side, had examined the pilots’ information related to their flying licenses and their medical check. Detailed examinations of the information related to the pilots training are being done now, after translating this information from the Russian language.

The technical status, and the detailed repairs that were carried out on the airplane, its structure, systems and engines since the date of production up to the date of the accident, are being studied now. This study is supported by the relevant airplane technical documents and records delivered from the Russian side. This study needs plenty of time, as the airplane had been produced on 1997.

The wreckage group within the investigation committee, and for about 250 working hours, have done an extensive photography, identified the locations, sorted and classified the wreckage parts scattered within the wreckage site, developed a wreckage plan to deduce the different effects on each part of the airplane, linking this with the technical history to use that in the following investigation phase. Work in this area is still under progress.

Captain El Mokaddem added that, all the Accredited Representatives representing the states participating in the investigation have been granted all the rights that are defined in Annex 13 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation. Cooperation and communication with them are still in a continuation process to exchange information regarding the accident.

Fifteen trips to the wreckage site have been organized by the Egyptian Air force using helicopters.

Coordination is still under progress with the Egyptian Army, to benefit from their capabilities so as to transfer the wreckage from the accident site, after completing all the required examinations, and to collect it in a secure place in Cairo that allow the committee to start new phases of investigation.

Captain El Mokaddem revealed that, the committee did not receive up till now any information indicating unlawful interference, consequently the committee continues its work regarding the technical investigation.
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Old 16th Dec 2015, 13:53
  #210 (permalink)  
 
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HighAndFlighty: Well, the report referenced by Kulverstukas was really painful reading.
I've added some paragraph breaks, which help a little bit.
... and I've shortened the line-length, hoping that also helps.

Issuance of the Preliminary Report for the Metrojet Russian Airplane accident

Cairo, December 14, 2015

Captain Ayman ElMokaddem, chief of the International investigation committee (Investigator
in Charge), investigating the accident of the Metrojet airplane declared that, as a progress
in the investigation work, and in accordance with Annex 13 to the Convention on International
Civil Aviation ICAO, the committee has finished the "Preliminary Report".

This report has been sent to all Accredited Representatives for the States that have the
right to participate in the investigation, in addition to the International Civil Aviation
Organization ICAO.

Captain ElMokaddem added that the report includes 19 typical articles well known in accidents
investigations, and includes the preliminary information that is available to the investigation
committee up till this date. The report includes also some information that will be subjected
to developments through the next phases of investigation.

Captain El Mokaddem indicated that the scope of investigation for the wreckage parts has extended
for more than 16 kilometers from the main wreckage site. He assured also that the members of
the forensic medicine task group within the investigation committee had received the reports
regarding the examination of the bodies made by the forensic doctors. The committee is waiting
for the comparison reports from the Russian side to identify the victims status after knowing
the DNA analysis for their families and kins.

The committee received support from Egyptian experts, faculty of engineering, Cairo University for
producing photos for the airplane wreckage, using a three dimensional advanced camera, to assist in
making a record for the status and shape of the wreckage and its relative positions at the impact
site. About 30 working hours were dedicated to this task. In addition, a specialized team from the
"Metallurgy Center for Researches and Development" had visited the wreckage site for the visual
examination, preparing for the second phase of wreckage analysis after transferring it to Cairo.

The committee has offered the full opportunity to all the concerned parties including the insurance
company officials and the Russian working team to examine the wreckage at the site. This was
done in accordance with the international regulations, before transferring the wreckage from
the site for the following investigation phases.

Flight Data Recorder FDR information indicated that all the flights made by this airplane, five
days before the accident were between Russian airports and Egyptian airports. For the flight just
before the accident flight, the airplane departed from Samara Russia and landed in Sharm El Sheik.

The system group within the investigation committee, spent about 30 hours in removing 38
computer units belonging to the airplane, in addition to two other computer units belonging
to the engines from the wreckage at the accident site. The units had been transferred to Cairo
for the purpose of thorough investigation by the specialized task groups.

The operation group within the investigation committee, with the Russian side, had examined
the pilots’ information related to their flying licenses and their medical check. Detailed
examinations of the information related to the pilots training are being done now, after
translating this information from the Russian language.

The technical status, and the detailed repairs that were carried out on the airplane, its
structure, systems and engines since the date of production up to the date of the accident,
are being studied now. This study is supported by the relevant airplane technical documents
and records delivered from the Russian side. This study needs plenty of time, as the airplane
had been produced on 1997.

The wreckage group within the investigation committee, and for about 250 working hours, have
done an extensive photography, identified the locations, sorted and classified the wreckage
parts scattered within the wreckage site, developed a wreckage plan to deduce the different
effects on each part of the airplane, linking this with the technical history to use that in
the following investigation phase. Work in this area is still under progress.

Captain El Mokaddem added that, all the Accredited Representatives representing the states
participating in the investigation have been granted all the rights that are defined in Annex
13 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation. Cooperation and communication with them
are still in a continuation process to exchange information regarding the accident.

Fifteen trips to the wreckage site have been organized by the Egyptian Air force using helicopters.

Coordination is still under progress with the Egyptian Army, to benefit from their capabilities
so as to transfer the wreckage from the accident site, after completing all the required
examinations, and to collect it in a secure place in Cairo that allow the committee to start
new phases of investigation.
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Old 22nd Dec 2015, 23:15
  #211 (permalink)  
 
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Still someone arguing over the bomb theory ?

Looks like a reality check by the Egyptian authorities...

Egypt’s government has hired international consultancy Control Risks to audit its airport security in the wake of the Russian jet crash in Sinai that led foreign leaders to curtail flights to the country.

London-based Control Risks will first inspect airports in Cairo, the country’s principal hub, and Sharm El Sheikh, the final takeoff point of the Metrojet plane that crashed on Oct. 31 and killed all 224 people aboard, Egypt’s Civil Aviation Minister Hossam Kamal said Tuesday,

Other airports across the country would be checked at a later date, he said.
Source: International Firm to Inspect Egypt?s Airports After Sinai Disaster - WSJ
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Old 23rd Dec 2015, 02:16
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URL for below article not requiring a Wall Street Journal subscription:

International Firm to Inspect Egypt?s Airports After Sinai Disaster - WSJ

Source: International Firm to Inspect Egypt's Airports After Sinai Disaster - WSJ
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Old 24th Dec 2015, 11:58
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Russia's security chief says identified groups behind plane explosion in Egypt

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Alexander Bortnikov, the head of Russia's Federal Security Service, said on Thursday Russia had identified groups behind the explosion of a Russian plane in Egypt, which killed all 224 passengers on board in October, local news agencies reported.

(Reporting by Vladimir Soldatkin; editing by Dmitry Solovyov)
No other details, yet.
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Old 26th Dec 2015, 09:37
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Recent news in Swedish:

Ryska utredare har hittat spår av sprängämne i Sinaiplanet - DN.SE

Ryska haveriutredare som undersökt delar av det ryska passagerarplan som störtade i Sinaiöknen i oktober säger nu att man har hittat spår av sprängmedlet C-4.
[...]

På fredagen skriver den ryska tidningen Kommersant att utredare i Ryssland hittat ett en meter stort hål som sprängts inifrån och ut från flygplanskroppen och där också spår av det plastiska sprängämnet C-4.
Ryska myndigheter gick redan i mitten av november ut med beskedet att man var säkra på att det var en bomb som låg bakom kraschen.
[...]

Egyptiska myndigheter sa så sent som den 14 december att man inte hade några bevis på att det rörde sig om ett terrorattentat.
My very short translation:

Russian aviation investigators who investigated parts of the Russian passenger plane that went down in Sinai desert now says they have discovered traces of the explosive C-4.

This Friday the Russian paper Komersant writes that investigators have found a one metre large gap in the airplane body, also with traces of C-4
.
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