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Air Asia Indonesia Lost Contact from Surabaya to Singapore

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Air Asia Indonesia Lost Contact from Surabaya to Singapore

Old 30th Dec 2014, 08:23
  #501 (permalink)  
 
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Don't the practical realities of SAR add to the need for more data to be available? How difficult would it be to have a SATCOM system which was armed climbing through 20k and which automatically burped out position data on descending through 2k then every x seconds until goodbye and closing the channel at 200ft say? You could regain some weight and cost by junking the ELTs which appear to be occupying space normally reserved for chocolate teapots!
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Old 30th Dec 2014, 08:48
  #502 (permalink)  
caa
 
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Practical reality is you can find aircraft most the time in normal conditions when the weather permits you to look. This one seems to be about where it should have been.


These aircraft have ELTs yes but need to be alive to activate them - if there were survivors after impact then we would know exact position to go to. And in bad weather attempts would be made, not necessarily successful ones.


Bottom line is it seems to be found and with little risk by SAR knowing that NO ELT was activated and therefore as stated early more a search than a rescue in this case.
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Old 30th Dec 2014, 08:49
  #503 (permalink)  
 
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Racist and patently ill-informed comment from Australian 'expert' reported on New Straits Times

""Neil Hansford said that either the Indonesian captain or French first officer had plotted a “dangerous flight plan"

“Whether they read the meteorology right they were given in Surubaya...And how well did they communicate? One whose basic language is Bahasa and the other guy’s basic language is French.”
Racist?

Maybe ill informed, maybe not.

He may well be right that as in other recent crashes, there was no fault with the aircraft.

I would suggest that language differences are a significant human factors issue in flight deck communications. Just as in journalism, where the original Neil Hansford sound bites may have been summarized by a native Chinese speaker and perhaps retranslated back into English for release by the Xinhua news agency.
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Old 30th Dec 2014, 08:50
  #504 (permalink)  
 
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We all debate causes and preventative measures.
And then you look at a few photos of those poor relatives.
Awful.
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Old 30th Dec 2014, 08:50
  #505 (permalink)  
 
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Well Neil Hansford must have a fairly high opinion of himself to lay the blame squarely at the feet of the pilots considering the following is a summary of his "experience" from Lonkedin.
After over 30 years in the airline/aviation /express industry and airport sector coupled with an increasing involvement in e-borders and secure airports I still have plenty on my plate to keep me off the streets.

Specialties:Seen as expert in the establishment of express freight air and ground networks. Specialist in preparation and implementation of launch business plans in Asia Pacific and Indian sub-continent and Middle East for passenger and freight airlines. Knowledge of e-border and airport passenger security systems
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Old 30th Dec 2014, 08:51
  #506 (permalink)  
 
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With the AF447 crash and now this I think all pilots should undertake a high altitude stall awareness and recovery training,with particular emphasise on Airbus aircraft.
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Old 30th Dec 2014, 08:54
  #507 (permalink)  
 
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I don't suppose the industry adopts a 'no ELT so no rush' approach. As they are carried may as well maximise there utility even post- mortem. Why not have a built in station which can be operated by strapped in CC with SOP to activate on a depressurization event or an emergency?
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Old 30th Dec 2014, 08:56
  #508 (permalink)  
 
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No doubt we may learn from the data recorders and the subsequent investigation what happened, if the air accident investigation does its job properly.

But two items from the analysis on PPRuNe are significant, and could be addressed without waiting for the report.

First, have all pilots been properly advised and trained to deal with the inappropriate behavior of the Airbus computers that can lead to upset, mentioned on several threads here...
And secondly, also mentioned by several posters, unserviceable or inoperative cockpit weather radar seems to be tolerated by the industry.
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Old 30th Dec 2014, 08:56
  #509 (permalink)  
 
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Watched Neil Hansford being interviewed on this mornings breakfast TV and had an overwhelming desire to throw something at my TV. Pompous and arrogant were two of a variety of words I think my wife heard me shout at the TV.

Where on Earth do they get these muppets?
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Old 30th Dec 2014, 09:02
  #510 (permalink)  
 
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And secondly, also mentioned by several posters, unserviceable or inoperative cockpit weather radar seems to be tolerated by the industry.
No, it isn't but the Captain is allowed to exercise the provisions of the MEL.
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Old 30th Dec 2014, 09:04
  #511 (permalink)  
 
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@airbubba

O.K. Dropping the Chinese path:

"Strategic Aviation Solutions chairman Neil Hansford told Channel 9's Today most flights went around the area and somebody 'dropped the ball' when they made the flight plan for QZ8501. "


Considering the number of aircraft in that route leg near that time the comment is ridiculous.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...y-weather.html
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Old 30th Dec 2014, 09:12
  #512 (permalink)  
 
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T-21
With the AF447 crash and now this I think all pilots should undertake a high altitude stall awareness and recovery training,with particular emphasise on Airbus aircraft.
I bet the trimmable THS will be found at max NU, again. That's not pilot error.
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Old 30th Dec 2014, 09:14
  #513 (permalink)  
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Hi mary;

Unserviceable radar is an MEL item to provide dispatchability for the aircraft when it is judged by the captain that it is not required on the route to be flown.

It isn't that the industry "tolerates" it - it leaves the final decision to go or not with the captain, where, of course, it belongs.

It is quite safe to fly without radar providing departure, enroute and arrival weather conditions do not require the use of on-board radar.

If conditions require it I would expect the captain to refuse the flight until it's either working or the aircraft is replaced.
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Old 30th Dec 2014, 09:15
  #514 (permalink)  
 
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Any seen a picture of this shadow or silhouette of the aircraft, if that's the case is the plane intact ??
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Old 30th Dec 2014, 09:22
  #515 (permalink)  
 
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And secondly, also mentioned by several posters, unserviceable or inoperative cockpit weather radar seems to be tolerated by the industry.
That certainly has not been my experience. I think I've perhaps flown twice in 20 years with the radar MEL'ed. I fly mostly widebody long haul so that may be a factor.

At any rate, I doubt you could MEL a radar on an overwater route near the equator.

Considering the number of aircraft in that route leg near that time the comment is ridiculous.
Agreed, and the stuff about looking at the weather on the ground. I glance at it out of SIN but know the reality is WYSIWYG. No matter what the paperwork says be ready for some action in that area. And, sometimes all is quiet.

And, you can see how the retranslation changes the tone of the 'expert's' analysis. He may be a buffoon but there are enough opinions out there that someone will be right. As a pilot, I sincerely hope that the crew did not cause the mishap and did everything right in a losing effort. But I know from many past events that will not always be the case.

I commented earlier on a post that was somehow deleted about how most of these 'consultants' in the U.S. are folks who can't hold a flying job for various reasons like medical, retirement, airline shutdown or getting fired at their flying job. I won't give examples this time.
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Old 30th Dec 2014, 09:34
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The agency added that the bodies were swollen but were intact. They were subsequently brought to an Indonesian naval ship, the National Search and Rescue Director Supriyadi told reporters. He added that none of the corpses were wearing life jackets.
It seems that everything happened very quickly.
If intact=no broken bones then maybe some of them survived the crash or if intact=1 piece but broken bones then maybe the plane broke in air
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Old 30th Dec 2014, 09:41
  #517 (permalink)  
 
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@phoenix

If a/c was at FL360 and stalled it will be app 4 to 5 min before it will hit the water,...


Unless given command by cpt/crew to prepare for impact or ditching pax will never take life jackets on their own initiative


If a/c broke in the air you will witness parts of a/c in much wider area also

Last edited by bobdxb; 30th Dec 2014 at 09:43. Reason: add info
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Old 30th Dec 2014, 09:42
  #518 (permalink)  
 
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I have posted earlier on the pages and I stand on my thoughts:

The bank of 120 degrees he was doing abruptly with an increasing altitude is panic break away from a squall line storm cells - to me it looks that way. There were the cases in which hard banking of, let's say, 25 degrees in HDG mode could lead close to stall margins on low speed hi-altitude maneuvers like this on Airbus. Also, from my experience, some modern WX radars can be wrong - sometimes it will display and scan - nothing. Several cases are noted on 737-800 (but I do not know exactly which equipment is on Airbus) that radar was not displaying (or detecting, call it as you want) a storm cells or squall line storm. One of my friends (a captain on 737-800) was badly shaken because of WX radar malfunction. Aircraft was saved with proper CRM and procedures.
From my point of view this is a possibly stalled AC due to maneuvering in poor WX conditions. But you know that air crash is a combination of errors and events so every little piece of evidence must be carefully observed.

To introduce myself I was in former Yugoslav state ministry aircraft accident bureau of investigation (and ATC).
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Old 30th Dec 2014, 09:45
  #519 (permalink)  
 
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Racist and patently ill-informed comment from Australian 'expert' reported on New Straits Times

""Neil Hansford said that either the Indonesian captain or French first officer had plotted a “dangerous flight plan"

“Whether they read the meteorology right they were given in Surubaya...And how well did they communicate? One whose basic language is Bahasa and the other guy’s basic language is French.”


Don't allow your political correctness to rule out inter language problems in the heat of a dire distress situation.
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Old 30th Dec 2014, 09:45
  #520 (permalink)  
 
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I bet all those impatient people demanding the industry spend un-necessary amounts of money on tracking gadgets for such rare events won't come back here praising the SAR for locating it so quickly.

Good job SAR. Given the poor weather on day one, I think they did a good job of making up for lost time in the last couple of days.

Hope all goes well with the salvage ops.
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