Drones threatening commercial a/c?
Google translation of the Norwegian story at #332
(usual caveat – machine translation)
(usual caveat – machine translation)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
Posts: 2,001
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tourist, the greatest threat from small drones is the irritating noise nuisance to people on the surface who just want a quite life.
The concept of ATC for Google and Amazon drones is laughable. There is no requirement whatsoever for either of these organisations to operate drones.
As Jack11111 points out, a "black smoking hole" is the last thing anyone wants to see.
The concept of ATC for Google and Amazon drones is laughable. There is no requirement whatsoever for either of these organisations to operate drones.
As Jack11111 points out, a "black smoking hole" is the last thing anyone wants to see.
There is no requirement whatsoever for either of these organisations to operate drones.
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: SF Bay area, CA USA
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Drone delivery.
Ok, just a few operational questions.
What is the MTOW of a drone delivering a 1kg package? A 2kg package? A 5kg package?
Can a drone deliver only to a secure site with the recipient present? Or will the drone hide your package as the UPS driver does?
How will the drone deal with a curious neighbor? A curious neighbor child? A pet dog?
When the drone is ready to depart, does it yell, "Clear!"? Will non-aviation types even understand what "Clear" means?
If the drone malfunctions, will it radio for help?
Are drones VFR Only or are they all-weather?
Just some operational questions.
What is the MTOW of a drone delivering a 1kg package? A 2kg package? A 5kg package?
Can a drone deliver only to a secure site with the recipient present? Or will the drone hide your package as the UPS driver does?
How will the drone deal with a curious neighbor? A curious neighbor child? A pet dog?
When the drone is ready to depart, does it yell, "Clear!"? Will non-aviation types even understand what "Clear" means?
If the drone malfunctions, will it radio for help?
Are drones VFR Only or are they all-weather?
Just some operational questions.
From Avweb
The drivers of little puddle jumpers are supposed to have a handle on how to operate in the airspace. Little Johnny with his drone, not so much, as we see with the pratts and the green light shiny things. If I were the owner of the aircraft above I'd be one ticked off individual.
The FAA has reported that an “unknown object” struck a Piper Apache while in flight near Romeoville, Illinois, but according to the drone website suasnews.com, that object was likely a small drone. Citing an “unconfirmed report,” suasnews states that a Piper PA-23 twin impacted the drone at about 2,500 feet near Lewis University Airport (KLOT) in Illinois on Aug. 27. Photos of damage on the aircraft appear to show a series of vertical indentations and a slice into the rubber de-ice boot along the leading edge of the tail surface. The airplane landed safely and nobody was hurt.
If we should ban drones because they are a threat to aircraft, then should we also ban little puddle-jumpers?
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think most of us would agree that the greatest threat from small drones is to small single engine puddle-jumpers?
Helicopters fly at low altitudes away from airports or established air routes. A drone hit to the main or anti-torque rotors could end in disaster.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Home
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Peekay
Yes, I was talking fixed wing on this thread, but I agree.
Not convinced that a main rotor would die from a small toy drone. Tail, maybe.
No matter how many drones get bought by idiots, birds will always be a greater threat.
If we are so worried by drones, then why are we not equally worried by birds?
Toy drones are generally getting lighter as the tech advances.
Delivery drones are different, but they are also going to be regulated and operating with somebody responsible who knows he goes to jail if he causes a problem.
Megan
Much like a bird strike, really.
Puddle jumper pilots are supposed to have a handle, but despite this keep killing airliners. The fact that they have a license is irrelevant to the dead people.
Where is the worry and outrage about those smoking holes?
Yes, I was talking fixed wing on this thread, but I agree.
Not convinced that a main rotor would die from a small toy drone. Tail, maybe.
No matter how many drones get bought by idiots, birds will always be a greater threat.
If we are so worried by drones, then why are we not equally worried by birds?
Toy drones are generally getting lighter as the tech advances.
Delivery drones are different, but they are also going to be regulated and operating with somebody responsible who knows he goes to jail if he causes a problem.
Megan
Much like a bird strike, really.
Puddle jumper pilots are supposed to have a handle, but despite this keep killing airliners. The fact that they have a license is irrelevant to the dead people.
Where is the worry and outrage about those smoking holes?
Last edited by Tourist; 5th Sep 2015 at 05:58.
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If we are so worried by drones, then why are we not equally worried by birds?
Similarly even a small drone could be a hazard to light helicopters like the Robinson R22.
The biggest threat with drones is the human operator:
- Drunk people who think "it's funny" to harass helicopters with their drones, and might even try to purposely hit one
- People who for some reason think they "must" fly their drones over an active accident site while an Air Ambulance is trying to land or take-off
- Kids who think it's cool to fly drones right over airports and even along the active runway
- Folks who want to "compete" with police & news helicopters over a crime scene, so they can post a footage to their friends on Facebook that night
Through August 20th the FAA has logged over 750 drone "events" this year alone.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
Posts: 2,001
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mechta,
Google and Amazon seem to be getting on splendidly without SUAV's. ATC are often stretched (by staff numbers, driven by cost), to provide ATSOCAS to manned aircraft.
Google and Amazon seem to be getting on splendidly without SUAV's. ATC are often stretched (by staff numbers, driven by cost), to provide ATSOCAS to manned aircraft.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Home
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Peekay
Do you honestly think that the number of drones will ever be more than negligible compared to the birds that we fly amongst every day?
Seagulls love to fly around the disk of a hovering helicopter. At least the pilot of the drone knows it will die and he will be out of pocket if he gets too close. Birds, not so much...
Birds are constantly doing the things which you are worried about.
They fly over airports.
They come to look at helicopters.
Airliners are specifically designed to take bird strikes.
Baby quadcopters seem very similar to me.
Zooker
Do you honestly believe that normal human ATC will have any role when it comes to Amazon etc delivering parcels?
Why would a quad ever fly above 200ft?
Why should Amazon give a sh1t if ATC are stretched? ATCs job is to provide a service to everyone who needs it, not decide who has a valid reason.
Amazon has a far more valid reason, (ie business) than some PPL playing for personal entertainment.
Do you honestly think that the number of drones will ever be more than negligible compared to the birds that we fly amongst every day?
Seagulls love to fly around the disk of a hovering helicopter. At least the pilot of the drone knows it will die and he will be out of pocket if he gets too close. Birds, not so much...
Birds are constantly doing the things which you are worried about.
They fly over airports.
They come to look at helicopters.
Airliners are specifically designed to take bird strikes.
Baby quadcopters seem very similar to me.
Zooker
Do you honestly believe that normal human ATC will have any role when it comes to Amazon etc delivering parcels?
Why would a quad ever fly above 200ft?
Why should Amazon give a sh1t if ATC are stretched? ATCs job is to provide a service to everyone who needs it, not decide who has a valid reason.
Amazon has a far more valid reason, (ie business) than some PPL playing for personal entertainment.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
Posts: 2,001
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SUAVs will not be a lot of use for delivering parcels if they can't fly over congested areas.
There is someone who posts pictures on the internet taken with a DJI quadcopter. It has been flown within 20' of the top of Blackpool Tower, which is 518' agl. There are other photographs from the same individual taken at about 2,500' above the town centre.
These are the sort of idiots we're dealing with.
There is someone who posts pictures on the internet taken with a DJI quadcopter. It has been flown within 20' of the top of Blackpool Tower, which is 518' agl. There are other photographs from the same individual taken at about 2,500' above the town centre.
These are the sort of idiots we're dealing with.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Home
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Two separate things.
Idiots with toy UAVs
These have been around as radio controlled aircraft for ever. Yes there are now more of them, but most of them are over cities where aircraft should not be at low level. Very very few idiots will have them at height. those that do, I refer you back to where I pointed out they are just like birds. Lots of them around but we seem to get by.
Amazon drones flying automated routes in automated drones.
This is new. There is no benefit in making these things fly high, plus the CEO of Amazon will be acutely aware of the potential lawsuit scale if they screw up. I suspect they will be absolutely bulletproof before they ever take to the skies operationally.
Idiots with toy UAVs
These have been around as radio controlled aircraft for ever. Yes there are now more of them, but most of them are over cities where aircraft should not be at low level. Very very few idiots will have them at height. those that do, I refer you back to where I pointed out they are just like birds. Lots of them around but we seem to get by.
Amazon drones flying automated routes in automated drones.
This is new. There is no benefit in making these things fly high, plus the CEO of Amazon will be acutely aware of the potential lawsuit scale if they screw up. I suspect they will be absolutely bulletproof before they ever take to the skies operationally.
Lots of them around but we seem to get by
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Home
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yup, birds cause damage.
Been there, done that.
Toys will cause damage.
Not had that yet.
How many aircraft have been brought down by a single bird in the last decade worldwide?
How many birds are there?
Just because something will inevitably cause accidents is not an excuse to ban it.
If we went down that route all PPL pilots would be grounded.
All motorbikes.
All radio controlled aircraft.
Boomerangs.
Frisbees.
Cricket balls.
the list is endless
The only thing to do is assess the realistic risk.
The simple fact is that despite vast numbers of these things having been bought in the last couple of years and lot of general worrying, the worst anyone can come up with is one collision with a Cessna, no damage and a dent in a de-icing boot.
Been there, done that.
Toys will cause damage.
Not had that yet.
How many aircraft have been brought down by a single bird in the last decade worldwide?
How many birds are there?
Just because something will inevitably cause accidents is not an excuse to ban it.
If we went down that route all PPL pilots would be grounded.
All motorbikes.
All radio controlled aircraft.
Boomerangs.
Frisbees.
Cricket balls.
the list is endless
The only thing to do is assess the realistic risk.
The simple fact is that despite vast numbers of these things having been bought in the last couple of years and lot of general worrying, the worst anyone can come up with is one collision with a Cessna, no damage and a dent in a de-icing boot.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
Posts: 2,001
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Amazon drones flying automated routes in automated routes"
What happens when a 'powerplant' fails?
Below 200', super. More noise pollution.
Also if these things are that low, 'scallys' will be shooting them down and making off with the booty contained therein.
It's madness.
What happens when a 'powerplant' fails?
Below 200', super. More noise pollution.
Also if these things are that low, 'scallys' will be shooting them down and making off with the booty contained therein.
It's madness.