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Jet2 Emergency Landing at East Midlands

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Jet2 Emergency Landing at East Midlands

Old 4th Sep 2014, 21:32
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No, I saw the a/c on stand today before it got dragged down to maintenance.

Definitely F40 selected.
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 22:04
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Definitely F40 selected.
and deployed?
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 22:13
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Yes. All flaps and slats fully extended.

Passengers were using them too despite what the media tells you about 'jumping off the end of the wing'
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 23:04
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I'll say it again - We really must rethink our attitude towards evacuations and safety briefings. It is patently clear from Jet2's last three evacuations that these were truly cake and arse parties. It's not Jet2 fault because I'm sure they followed the guidance given by the clowns in the CAA and the lovely muppets in EASA. I'm also sure that cabin crew were properly trained and did their jobs to the very best of their ability. But what appears to have changed is the passenger. Each one now appears to "have rights", very few listen to the pre-flight brief and far too many make their own uninformed, ignorant opinions about their own safety and the actions they should take. Those who can't make up their minds screech and howl whenever anything unusual occurs. The media then re-enforce the beliefs of the stupid by reporting the rubbish they spout off.

Cameronian - It might appear that I'm being unpleasant to those who pay my wages. But I find it difficult to respect ignorance and stupidity. There was a time when most passengers paid attention to the safety brief but now, because people fly so much and emergencies are so rare, very few believe it is worth spending the time to listen and understand what is being said. Unfortunately, the price of doing so is blind disorder and panic. So given that the attitude of passengers has changes, airline safety policies must change to reflect the current world. But such a thing is only possible if the regulatory authorities permit such a change - but there's the problem. They know very little about aviation and even less about people.
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 23:09
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I'll say it again - We really must rethink our attitude towards evacuations and safety briefings. It is patently clear from Jet2's last three evacuations that these were truly cake and arse parties. It's not Jet2 fault because I'm sure they followed the guidance given by the clowns in the CAA and the lovely muppets in EASA. I'm also sure that cabin crew were properly trained and did their jobs to the very best of their ability. But what appears to have changed is the passenger. Each one now appears to "have rights", very few listen to the pre-flight brief and far too many make their own uninformed, ignorant opinions about their own safety and the actions they should take. Those who can't make up their minds screech and howl whenever anything unusual occurs. The media then re-enforce the beliefs of the stupid by reporting the rubbish they spout off.
Hear, hear!

People have become so accustomed to everything being handed to them on a plate. Of priviledges being presented to them as necessities that they now believe it is their right to go abroad for 2 weeks every year rather than a privilidge because 'itz mai human ritez tho innit'.

Like last night. The aircraft evacuated with NO warning to anyone, not even ground crews. The menzies crew had to duck for cover when the slides went as 2 of them were underneath chocking it and nearly got taken out when the flaps extended and slides blew out without warning. Handling agents are not trained to manage evacuations - thats the realm of AirOps and RFFS.

So how the hell in the world do these passengers expect there to be ANYONE at the bottom of the slides to help them less than 10 seconds after the decision to evacuate was taken? Do they think they have evacuation teams that instantaneously just spring up out of thin air?

I've flown Jet2 in a door seat so I KNOW that crew speak to each person at an 'unmanned' emergency exit to check that they know that in the event of evacuation it is their responsibility to check it is safe, open the door and either help people get out the door or help them off the slide at the bottom.

But yet some of these passengers seem to think that having paid their ticket price that, even in an emergency, everyone has to wait on them hand and foot. And I think that LoCo really hasn't helped this. People don't see Cabin Crew as emergency responders whose primary duty is to keep them safe, they see them as air bourne customer service and sales representatives and their personal attendants to serve them in the air - "would you like to buy a scratch card sir?"

Last edited by Burnie5204; 4th Sep 2014 at 23:45.
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Old 5th Sep 2014, 08:16
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Whilst i agree with the comments of two previous post the fact remains we have what we have in terms of passengers and i think its more to do with the frequency and therefore complacency of regular flyers.

Evacuations should be a absolute last resort, the BLK Jet2 evacuations was i understand order by fire 1, so no real choice for the Capt, The GLA Jet2 evacuation would appear* to be due to misting following ingesting deicing fluid either from the runway or following deicing, something that might reasonably have been expected and therefore briefed for the cabin crew.

I await the report on the EMA Jet2 evacuation, but the AAIB are looking at the R1 relay issue according to early reports an issue that would explain loss of cabin PA and other issues reported.

Prior to considering an evacuation the Capt should always ask 'Cabin crew report' I can see smoke, what colour is it?, its white, is it clearing? how far can you see?

Evacuations in most case will result in injury!! A well handled event was the the aircraft (not Jet2) that left R14 at LBA some years back and ended up with the port side dangling over the drop, an evacuation there would have been a theme park slide almost vertical
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Old 5th Sep 2014, 09:13
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As a slight aside, I had to laugh out loud last night when BBC News at Ten explained the trauma experienced by one unfortunate passenger. Who, it turns out, was so traumatised by his experience that he had to travel back to EMA some hours later and ponder to himself quietly outside the perimeter fence in order to try and take in all those experiences he had whilst in situ!
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Old 5th Sep 2014, 09:20
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The media coverage of this incident has been sensationalist to say the least - no wonder more people are becoming afraid of flying when they keeping hyping it up.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Well done to the crew for getting them all off in one piece.
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Old 5th Sep 2014, 09:32
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BBC Radio 4 mentioned this yesterday but didn't mention the airline. Is this simply because the incident didn't involve one of their sensational 'favourites'?
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Old 5th Sep 2014, 11:09
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There was a time when most passengers paid attention to the safety brief but now, because people fly so much and emergencies are so rare, very few believe it is worth spending the time to listen and understand what is being said. Unfortunately, the price of doing so is blind disorder and panic.
Amongst the comments on the Daily Mail was one bloke who asserted, repeatedly, if he was on an aircraft that had just completed an emergency landing, he would:

a) not wait for the crew to say it was safe to open the doors
b) he would thump anybody who got in his way or try to stop him

How on earth can any planning or procedure allow for that type of passenger?
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Old 5th Sep 2014, 11:40
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Pleb!

he would thump anybody who got in his way or try to stop him
Let's just hope he doesn't get sucked down a live engine then...
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Old 5th Sep 2014, 11:44
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...or alternatively...............
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Old 5th Sep 2014, 12:24
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With passenger manned exits, the likelihood of the exit being opened in panic or adrenaline-fuelled and before being instructed to by the crew is high. The evacuation checklist and procedure doesn't include this and has to be altered rather promptly when and if it becomes apparent that the overwing is open and the engine is still running at idle.

There's a lot of disdain for passengers standing on wings and stating how easy it is to slide down the flaps when they're set at 40. Hmmm. I beg to differ. If it's on fire, then sure you'll get down somehow but it is "somehow" and how agile and prepared are most passengers (or flightcrew for that matter)? Have a look at the height of the wing and flap extension on your next walkaround, why not extend the flaps to 40, ground activity permitting, and look at the distance to the ground. Also look at it when you next pass the exit on your way through the cabin. It's not comparable to the "ease" of a slide and slide evacuations always cause some injuries. How about a wet wing, an upper surface iced wing, a de-iced wing with fluid still extant? This came up in the Glasgow evacuation and it's more valid than some give it credit. The other aspect is that removable overwing exits are actually fairly heavy and cumbersome and where does that door actually end up when it's removed? The -800 exit is a thing of beauty in comparison, but this wasn't an -800.

So how do we ensure that all passengers follow all instructions? Successful evacuations are controlled evacuations.
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Old 5th Sep 2014, 12:25
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A couple of comments:

It is the responsibility of the able bodied person sitting by the overwing exit to open it in the event an evacuation is required
During my past few flights as SLF the passengers sitting next to the overwing exits seem:

a) not to be able-bodied (old, infirm, young);
b) seemed to appreciate the extra leg room afforded by pre-booking the seat; and
c) were not briefed by cabin crew before the flight (verbally and/or to ensure safety card had been read and understood.

Please note these comments DO NOT relate to Jet2 flights.
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Old 5th Sep 2014, 12:36
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Come to think of it I don't recall any safety briefing by cc stating that you must follow their instructions and no door to be opened except on their instruction. On the safety card the cartoons tell you to look out of the window and check it is safe. No mention of engines running or doing as you are told, interpretation likely to be act on your own initiative. Have I been characteristically inattentive all these years?

Edit: and for that matterwhy not a quick reminder before landing (sorry cc but you could usually omit the lifejacket rigmarole at that stage....)
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Old 5th Sep 2014, 13:06
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In the olden days there used to be a member of cabin crew seated midships near the overwing exits from doors closed to airborne and from just before landing to engine shut down.
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Old 5th Sep 2014, 13:22
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Mr Optimistic - you have been paying attention. And is it for that reason, amongst others, that it is best to wait until the command to evacuate is given. You also make a fair point regarding taking action on your own initiative - this forms no part of any briefing that I know of. Another reason to sit tight would be to wait for the initial attack by the RFF to be completed. They have the ability to knock out small (brakes, small fuel leaks etc.) fires, most likely rendering an evacuation unnecessary.

I have also witnessed a few discussions about inappropriate people sitting in the rows by the emergency exits. They don't (and certainly will not) last long but it's a shame we have to have them. The best reason I've heard to date was proffered by a little old dear with a broken leg. That was "That restriction doesn't apply to me" she then went tell us that she had to have to extra room so she could keep her leg straight.
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Old 5th Sep 2014, 13:50
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I adore flying, yet hate heights. I can look out of an a/c window and love every second of it, but freeze solid ten feet up a ladder.

I cannot imagine how terrified I would be, in what *might* be an emergency situation (smoke, smell of burning), suddenly finding myself on a wing and having to find my way safely off it. Even with bits extended, it's a long way down

Yes, I read the emergency card and yes I do watch the briefing and I actually know where I should go... but I can easily imagine that being there is not quite the same.

It would be an interesting straw poll on here just to find out how many of the regular commentors have ever stood on a wing in an evac?
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Old 5th Sep 2014, 15:50
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I don't often comment as I'm only SLF, even though I fly a lot, but I have noticed a few issues that need to be addressed by the industry regarding overwing exits.

The safety briefing regarding leaving the aircraft in an emergency emphasises the slides, however if you exit via the wing then there is no slide so passengers aren't sure what to do. (appreciate some large ac do have slides). To some people it is a long drop even with flaps 40. Don't forget you are standing up so it looks a long way down especially if you are not in the first flush of youth.

The exit row seats used to be a perk for frequent flyers who, on the balance of probabilities, would probably have more idea of what to do in an emergency. (though agreed this could not be counted on)

The safety briefing isn't clear when the over wing exits should be opened, the cabin crew, when they give the one to one briefing at the seat, state "in an emergency", not "when told to be cabin crew". Some people may freeze, some may react too quickly.

Regards
Mitch
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Old 5th Sep 2014, 15:55
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This really really winds me up. I have many friends who work for Jet2 in both flight crew and cabin crew roles, and I hate how these news reports give them and the company a bad name.


If you listen to the interview on the BBC website and read the article, there are a few things which clearly point out that the passengers paid no attention to the safety brief or reviewed the safety cards.


"His friend Rob forced one of the doors open, ran to the end of the wing and jumped down on to the tarmac.


He then helped other passengers who were running along the wings down on to the runway."


If the cabin crew hadn't initiated the opening of the over wing doors, why would a passenger do it themselves? If the crew hadn't given the go-ahead for it, that would tell me that there may have been a concern that there was a possibility of fire either from the engines, from underneath the aircraft or something. As for running to the end of the wings and jumping off, im 100% certain that over wing exits are not described this way in any safety briefing. So why are the passengers doing it? This also happened with the GLA incident.


Furthermore, in the interview, the gent says that the cabin crew were shouting at the passengers to leave their bags because the passengers had their bags in their hands.......WHY?? Its made clear that in the event of an emergency, leave ALL belongings.


This has nothing to do with Jet2 procedures and their crew, its to do with bloody stupid passengers not following procedures or orders and doing what they please. Cabin crew acting the way they did was clearly in an attempt to regain control of the passengers for their own safety.
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