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US Air PHL

Old 14th Mar 2014, 18:11
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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The one thing that is a MUST to have with you when you evacuate is your car keys.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 18:29
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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listen - most airlines allow now everything but the kitchen sink to be taken on board in the cabin - so much so if you get on last you cant even find space for
your coat -
people will not pay for luggage where they can - so what do you expect??
Good on United for finally clamping down on this silliness and enforcing the carry on size limit.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 18:35
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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i did post a cabin pic of one of our a/c in 1984 which only had hat racks so you simply had to put your bag under the seat in front of you

but my post was deleted

puts it in perceptive when seeing today's pics of the USAir pax evac with loads of big bags again
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:23
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The Blonde pax freaking out...

Instead of helping elderly or injured, this young lady had enough time to put on her phone and film herself freaking out...

Ok, thats kind of understandable, but post the film in public and become famous for beeing a freaked out blond goes beyond me...


Selfie-Video nach Startabbruch: źDas Flugzeug brennt!╗ ? News ? Blick
The third error is to hold the camera the wrong way up.

The fourth error is to not notice/care about the third error and upload anyway.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:55
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Is the gear collapsed or just buried in the dirt?
There's always one isn't there
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 20:49
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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On the news it looked like there's significant wrinkling in the top fuselage above the L1 door and forward of the antenna. However, the camera angle was bad and it was difficult to see any detail. The aircraft is 14 years old- it may be destined for a new life as beer cans!

Also note that almost everyone in the photos is dressed for FLL, the destination. Air temp at PHL was 32F/0c at the time of the accident.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 20:52
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V1-10

I wasn't suggesting to rotate at V1-10 , but execute a normal takeoff at VR and get airborne and sort the problem out if the problem is related to tires
Maybe you would prefer to do an RTO at V1 -10 with a fully loaded aircraft on a short runway ?
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 20:59
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Hotel Tango wrote:

There's always one isn't there
I, unfortunately, fear there there are much more than just one. (Evident in the thread directly above this one.)
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 22:32
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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I wasn't suggesting to rotate at V1-10 , but execute a normal takeoff at VR and get airborne and sort the problem out if the problem is related to tires
I see what you're getting at. Making a go-decision is normally best course of action with a tyre burst, however if an engine fails near-simultaneously, you've got a lot on your plate and going into the air isn't the worst idea if you're close to V1. It's a complex scenario and not every pilot will make the right decision every time. Agree.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 22:33
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barit1, respect sir
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 23:14
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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I agree with you ... AIB put out a briefing recommending to get airborne in the V1 -20 to V1 range if a tire bursts and doesn't damage the engine .

This incident occurred to me a few years ago going out of rome Ciampino down to Sharm in Egypt with a full load of pax . I decided to get airborne than doing an RTO near V1 ...
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 23:27
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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It isn't just SLF that try to get their bags off the airplane when they evacuate.....

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Old 15th Mar 2014, 01:05
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Stopping after v1?,,,no,no,no,no!

anyone who has flown transport cat airplanes had this drilled in them over and over. Lots of examples of blown tires on t/o causing post V1 stopping decision which almost always was a disaster are on the books.

On this on at PHL...maybe tire popped on t/o, fod entered left engine, pilot "derotated' hard which collapsed nose gear...hope not,,,but cvr/fdr will tell the tale...we'll see.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 04:45
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Why are people suggesting you rotate prior to V1??

And who are these people assuming that it has reached V2?
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 05:56
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reviewing the FAA literature/Boeing literature, it indicates that the moment a tire is lifted off the runway, the vibration may bet much worse as there is a dampening effect when the tire is in contact with the runway.

could the nose have lifted off, the tire shook MORE violently and a decision to put it back on made?
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 11:20
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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5 knots below V1/VR enormous bang.
P1 go minded and begins rotate at his V1/VR (company SOPS - doesn't have to rely on the call?).
P2 perceives imminent danger prior to his ASI hitting V1/VR and closes thrust levers.

The safe/unsafe (life/death?) decide, communicate, and act whether to get airborne or stop occurs over a period of one-banana-two. Always tricky accelerating just before V1/VR.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 11:29
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Windshear reported!

If it was wind-shear you have no choice in whether or not you land after V1, you just loose lift and fall out of the sky! Don't you?
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 14:22
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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blimey

the reject/go no go decision is up to the captain at every airline I can think of unless the captain is incapacitated. the copilot does not make the decision and the captain is the one to actually take control of the plane and reject (assuming the copilot was flying the takeoff).

mark654321. while windshear/microburst can cause a plane to crash, it does not ALWAYS cause it to crash (go down and land)>

it depends on the severity of the shear, capability of the plane, capability and skill of the crew.

pretty sure that KPHL has windshear detecting equipment , even beyond the old LLWS alert system, but the much better doppler.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 15:19
  #59 (permalink)  

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the reject/go no go decision is up to the captain at every airline I can think of unless the captain is incapacitated. the copilot does not make the decision and the captain is the one to actually take control of the plane and reject (assuming the copilot was flying the takeoff).
I know of at least one airline where a co-pilot can call stop in certain circumstances and if they are handling they also carry out the initial actions because they also handle their own power.
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Old 15th Mar 2014, 15:32
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Gonna have to wait for some more details on this one.

I can see a "fr'instance" where they catch a headwind gust just around V1 (doesn't have to be classic "microburst wind shear", just a gust), that boosts airspeed enough for an unintentional liftoff in ground effect.

Just as the PIC is thinking "abort" due to vibration and bang of nose tire failure. Maybe he puts in a little nose-down pitch just as the gust fades away - or maybe he doesn't, but the loss of the wind (coincidentally just as they get high enough to clear ground effect) puts her down hard anyway.

Bouncy-bouncy-CRUNCH. Fortunately the AB survives better than the jet at Aspen.
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