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US Air PHL

Old 14th Mar 2014, 06:58
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SLF here.

Clearly this is after V1. Under what circumstances do you abort after being airbourne?
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 07:00
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Really taking hand luggage off in an emergency situation should get you on the TSA's "No Fly List"
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 07:04
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Hitchens - you don't in a transport category jet. You might in a Piper Cub with 7000 feet of runway remaining. You don't do that in PHL.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 07:24
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Tire debris FOD????

Obviously after V1 the crew should continue even though debris took out an engine. What is the possibility that both engines failed due to nose tire(s) failure FODing both engines?

Last edited by g450cpt; 14th Mar 2014 at 10:04.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 07:30
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This was another fine example of the stellar airmanship exhibited by the US Airways East pilots.

Blew a tire at or after V1. Chunks of tire go into engine, where it does assorted damage to said engine, resulting in smoke and flame. Aircraft airborne, crew decides to reject the t/o (low altitude turn back) after being airborne and slams the nose wheel back on the runway in an attempt to force it back down.

That's the word coming out right now, lets see how this gets spun.

The east pilots have damaged at least a dozen airplanes since the merger with America West. Their level of professionalism matches their level of integrity.
This kind of conjecture, and the aspersions therein, really don't belong on a public board for all the obvious reasons. You simply don't reject T/O past V1 except in a handful of highly unusual circumstances where the airplane won't fly; to do otherwise renders the concept of V1 meaningless.

Good luck with the merger with AA. IMO, you're all playing right into Doug's hands with this kind of stuff.

MODS: feel free to delete this post if it's beyond the pale.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 07:42
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Obviously after V1 the crew should continue even though debris took out an engine. What is the possibility that both engines failed due to FOD?
Highly unlikely. If due to a burst tire/tyre; debris would tend to be thrown aft rather than into the intake; worst case would on first glance seem to be one engine being lost which would not be cause to reject T/O once airborne. Hard to see a burst tire taking out both engines. That said, I wasn't there and will let the NTSB do their job on this one.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 08:29
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Pax taking hand luggage in an evacuation

Pax will always try and take hand luggage with them in an evacuation, as has been seen countless times before. In an emergency situation people react instinctively, no amount of pre-flight briefing is going to change that.

Instead of blaming the pax for acting instinctively in what is no doubt their first and only evacuation, criticism should be directed at the airlines or regulators. If you don't want pax taking their luggage in an evacuation don't let them take it into the cabin in the first place.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 08:31
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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I thought it was ALWAYS prudent to get airborne after V1 and definitely V2 and then sort the situation out?. are not most twin jets capable of taking off on 1 engine?

Last edited by YeuEmMaiMai; 14th Mar 2014 at 11:14. Reason: See bolded text
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 09:12
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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The Blonde pax freaking out...

Instead of helping elderly or injured, this young lady had enough time to put on her phone and film herself freaking out...

Ok, thats kind of understandable, but post the film in public and become famous for beeing a freaked out blond goes beyond me...


Selfie-Video nach Startabbruch: źDas Flugzeug brennt!╗ ? News ? Blick

Ps. An overrun because of a tirefailure close to V1 is not necessary pilots error. You just lost atleast 25% of your braking ability. Propably more if the next tire in the same gear goes too...

Glad everybody got out and the only scratches are on ego an a/c
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 09:54
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Some of the speculation here seems to revolve around a main gear tire failure, yet I could not figure out where this rumor came from.

The only thing I could read into the cited reports was a post-abort-decision nose gear failure. At what time an engine became involved is not clear.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 10:16
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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US Air PHL

I was taught that it was better to get airborne at V1 -10 knots if the problem was the tires than risk aborting the takeoff but , we still do not have all the facts ....
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 11:16
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Runway cameras?

Considering the hundreds or thousands of CCTVs at any major airport it always surprised me that there weren't permanent cameras at each end of each runway and on the tower. Investigators always seem to have to rely on planespotter's footage.

We're going skiing this weekend and as usual I can now look at half a dozen live webcams from the resort to see snow conditions. Seems a bit backward for our technologically advanced industry to not have something similar.

Perhaps they do now but I haven't seen it used in any recent investigations.

It took the Columbia disaster for NASA to set up high resolution cameras on each launch.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 13:50
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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I thought it was ALWAYS prudent to get airborne after V1 and definitely V2 and then sort the situation out?. are not most twin jets capable of taking off on 1 engine?
Stick around PPRUNE and you'll learn. Either by 1) asking uneducated questions and getting roasted, or 2) watching silently and absorbing knowledge.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 14:18
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Hand luggage

The fact is that pilots and cabin crew train for these sorts of situations. SLF do not. I know there's a safety briefing and they have a safety card to read but that is not the same as the sort of training in evacuation procedures that the pros get.

Point being: the overwhelming majority of SLF will never experience anything like this. Virtually no one will go through it twice (and if I find myself sitting beside a PAX who has, then I want off that plane before he has a third emergency situation).

So - when faced with extreme and unusual high-stress situations, people react in extreme and unusual high-stress ways. I'm no psychiatrist but I bet that what's going on is a sub-conscious process of trying to grasp onto something that is normal: "I'm getting off the plane. I've done this before. I must get my hand luggage..."

Moreover, they probably reckon that, as they have to stand and wait their turn to get the hell out, they might as well just grab their bag. Admittedly, they aren't thinking that it might impede their progress or tear the slide - but then, these people aren't professionally trained at getting the hell out of an airplane quickly.

I'm sure there's a reasonable number of idiots on these planes, too - but I just think that sometimes SLF needs to be cut a little bit of slack.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 14:44
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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"Point being: the overwhelming majority of SLF will never experience anything like this. Virtually no one will go through it twice (and if I find myself sitting beside a PAX who has, then I want off that plane before he has a third emergency situation)."

I'll make sure I introduce myself before the door closes---because I've been on two of them. Last summer's LaGuardia nosedive and another SWA flight where a football sized hole blew into the top of the airplane at 35k ft., instantly depressurizing the airplane.

With regards to comments about taking hand luggage off the airplane in these situations, we were on the runway at LaGuardia for several minutes before they opened the doors and started exiting the airplane via the slides. (And, IMO, the FAs did a very poor job of handling that entire situation---virtually no commands, no positive reinforcement, nothing. I was in an exit row beside the door waiting on their command--none came. Even after I asked loudly but calmly for their guidance. Conversely, the SWA FAs on the other flight were fantastic, moving from person to person down the aisles quickly but methodically--looking each passenger in the eyes with confidence to make sure everyone had oxygen masks on and working. And continued the reassurance until the plane landed 20-30 minutes later.)

We had plenty of time just waiting on the LGA flight to grab a computer bag or handbag. I didn't see anyone trying to get their luggage out, but smaller bags simply didn't hold anyone up. (All the while the smell of smoke was getting stronger.)

With regards to getting our luggage back, we waited several hours in the terminal for NTSB interviews and still didn't get our luggage. I finally had mine shipped to me about 4 days later. I read where one passenger, who left his laptop bag on the plane, had it stolen.

After the first flight, I reassured myself that lightning never strikes twice and I would never encounter another. After the second incident, I only fly if I absolutely have to and it's not a pleasurable experience anymore.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 14:46
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Rotating at V1-10?

If you lose and engine because of the debris, at v1-10 you may not have:

Vmcg,

Vmca

Who is teaching this technique. Inquiring minds would like to know.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 15:31
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Techniques?

Looks like USAIR may be teaching it
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 15:55
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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I'm not excusing passengers getting off the plane with their belongings, but it's also not surprising when there are first person stories of $3000 laptops going missing after the Southwest accident in New York.

If the plane isn't on fire or in multiple pieces, it's not hard to see how people would grab their stuff. Yes, it was an emergency, but if it weren't a frantic "get out in 30 seconds" environment, they probably deplaned relatively calmly and slowly.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 15:55
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Carry On Bags!!

"... and PLEASE Do Not Forget to take ALL Of your Carry On Bags With You... " Those PAX are IDIOITS!!
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 16:06
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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glad all out OK

listen - most airlines allow now everything but the kitchen sink to be taken on board in the cabin - so much so if you get on last you cant even find space for
your coat -
people will not pay for luggage where they can 1 or 2 biggish carry ons for free - so what do you expect??

Mr and Mrs average Joe will take their bags with them in a crisis - end of

blame the airlines - the pax are not idiots they are sheep - all the crew can do is get everyone off as quick as they can and not waste time telling pax to leave their bags behind when they arrive at the exit door with 2 carry-on (yeah not one - but 2! LOL)

time to rethink what's allowed in the cabin again - you cannot blame the pax sorry - WE (us pros's) might just grab our phones/passport and specs but most will NOT

that has been shown time and time again last few years

see etrang post #27 he knows what i am on about

Last edited by rog747; 14th Mar 2014 at 18:31.
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