Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
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So its likely that the various ATS providers had good position data - but entirely dependant on the aircrafts transponder/s. Without that no data at all. There could of course be military radars providing PSR coverage of this area - but that has not been disclosed as yet.
I'm more and more convinced that they're looking in the wrong place.
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They were quick to release the passenger list - where's the cargo manifest?
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What's this businessman doing @ 1.45 in the morning?
Alif said he was in the compound of his home when he saw the bright white light, which he described as similar to the ones used by airplanes during night flights.
"I was walking towards my back door when I caught a glimpse of the white light.
"I was walking towards my back door when I caught a glimpse of the white light.
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The article linked on the previous page might suggest they are looking in the wrong place.
I have an annotated map of the search area but can't post the image, but if this was a true sighting they need to search right off the coast of Bachok, Malaysia (near Kota Baru). Though it is hard to believe the Malaysian search parties would close their eyes for the first 50 miles of feet wet on the way to search their designated area...
KELANTAN: A businessman in Ketereh claimed that he saw a bright white light, believed to be of an aircraft, descending at high speed towards the South China Sea about 1.45am on the day flight MH370 went missing.
Alif Fathi Abdul Hadi, 29, told the New Straits Times what he saw after lodging a report with the Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency (MMEA) in Tok Bali earlier today.
Alif said he was in the compound of his home when he saw the bright white light, which he described as similar to the ones used by airplanes during night flights.
"I was walking towards my back door when I caught a glimpse of the white light.
"It was moving towards the sea, towards Bachok area, which was unusual.
From New Straits Times Latest - New Straits Times
I have an annotated map of the search area but can't post the image, but if this was a true sighting they need to search right off the coast of Bachok, Malaysia (near Kota Baru). Though it is hard to believe the Malaysian search parties would close their eyes for the first 50 miles of feet wet on the way to search their designated area...
KELANTAN: A businessman in Ketereh claimed that he saw a bright white light, believed to be of an aircraft, descending at high speed towards the South China Sea about 1.45am on the day flight MH370 went missing.
Alif Fathi Abdul Hadi, 29, told the New Straits Times what he saw after lodging a report with the Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency (MMEA) in Tok Bali earlier today.
Alif said he was in the compound of his home when he saw the bright white light, which he described as similar to the ones used by airplanes during night flights.
"I was walking towards my back door when I caught a glimpse of the white light.
"It was moving towards the sea, towards Bachok area, which was unusual.
From New Straits Times Latest - New Straits Times
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I did initially promise myself I wasn't going to get involved in this discussion, but I must admit I too am becoming quite perplexed by the lack of any wreckage in the expected area. There was one small fact that I observed at the start and quickly disregarded as meaningless, but as this situation is dragging out, I am beginning to suspect it may be more of a clue.
It is to do with the Transponder, or more to the point what we know has been received from it by the FR24 data. Or more to the point what hasnt been received. The very last report in the FR24 data chain lacks any altitude data. For it to have been processed, a recognisable message must have been received by the servers, otherwise the message before would be the last data we would see. What strikes me as noteworthy about this is that the most obvious sequence of events I can think of where this data output would be recorded, would occur when the transponder was deliberately cycled from Mode C (S) through Mode A (no alt) on the way to STBY (Off).
I might go one step further and suggest I am struggling to imagine any other set of events where this pattern of signal output would be observed.
Your thoughts?
It is to do with the Transponder, or more to the point what we know has been received from it by the FR24 data. Or more to the point what hasnt been received. The very last report in the FR24 data chain lacks any altitude data. For it to have been processed, a recognisable message must have been received by the servers, otherwise the message before would be the last data we would see. What strikes me as noteworthy about this is that the most obvious sequence of events I can think of where this data output would be recorded, would occur when the transponder was deliberately cycled from Mode C (S) through Mode A (no alt) on the way to STBY (Off).
I might go one step further and suggest I am struggling to imagine any other set of events where this pattern of signal output would be observed.
Your thoughts?
Thread Starter
Clear prop, if I have understood you correctly you are suggesting that the lack of data seems to indicate the transponder may have been deliberately switched off?
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The very last report in the FR24 data chain lacks any altitude data. For it to have been processed, a recognisable message must have been received by the servers, otherwise the message before would be the last data we would see. What strikes me as noteworthy about this is that the most obvious sequence of events I can think of where this data output would be recorded, would occur when the transponder was deliberately cycled from Mode C (S) through Mode A (no alt) on the way to STBY (Off).
Assuming that your premise is correct (this is the first time I hear about this), what are the odds that the last report saved by FR24 just happens to be the one when the transponder was passing through mode A?
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As I understand, FR24 saves one report per minute, even if reports come in more often than that.
Assuming that your premise is correct (this is the first time I hear about this), what are the odds that the last report saved by FR24 just happens to be the one when the transponder was passing through mode A?
Assuming that your premise is correct (this is the first time I hear about this), what are the odds that the last report saved by FR24 just happens to be the one when the transponder was passing through mode A?
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Update - Vietnam SAR
Very briefly:
- Square orange object, buoy suspected, spotted by DHC6 at 1020 local time (UTC+7 i.e. 0320Z), position N074730 E1025712. Investigating.
- The suspected "window liner" object spotted yesterday evening (widely reported as a suspected "door" in international media) has not been found again by 1130 local time.
- Search area possibly to be extended to South China Sea by afternoon.
Search continues, no confirmed debris so far.
source Dan Tri via Google Translate
- Square orange object, buoy suspected, spotted by DHC6 at 1020 local time (UTC+7 i.e. 0320Z), position N074730 E1025712. Investigating.
- The suspected "window liner" object spotted yesterday evening (widely reported as a suspected "door" in international media) has not been found again by 1130 local time.
- Search area possibly to be extended to South China Sea by afternoon.
Search continues, no confirmed debris so far.
source Dan Tri via Google Translate
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Seismic event
We are told that when SR111 hit the water "seismographic recorders in Halifax and in Moncton recorded a seismic event".
Does anyone have the expertise to confirm that, and to say whether the same could be expected of any large aircraft hitting the ocean (intact I presume)?
Does anyone have the expertise to confirm that, and to say whether the same could be expected of any large aircraft hitting the ocean (intact I presume)?
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I'm starting to agree with Clear Prop. Either it was deliberately switched off, or there was a serious electrical malfunction / fire in the business end.
That might explain why it's difficult to find as well.
Last edited by Bobman84; 10th Mar 2014 at 07:14.
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Search for debris - delay makes sense
Sailing through the search region several years ago showed a lot of fishing activity, but in addition to this there was significant floating debris, floating islands of rubbish and discarded junk. Whilst it may seem strange to some that a definite debris field hasn't been found, in the context of the area, it makes sense that they are being careful to verify any possible sightings. Plus, bearing in mind that much of the fishing in the area is small operators, with varied nationalities, operating to their own rules (rather than large companies), it really could be some time before feedback comes from these sources. Hoping that further news comes soon for the loved ones of those on board.
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We are told that when SR111 hit the water "seismographic recorders in Halifax and in Moncton recorded a seismic event".
Does anyone have the expertise to confirm that, and to say whether the same could be expected of any large aircraft hitting the ocean (intact I presume)?
Does anyone have the expertise to confirm that, and to say whether the same could be expected of any large aircraft hitting the ocean (intact I presume)?
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@clearprop
Yes tartare, thats exactly what I am suggesting.
Not to mention no radar being able to track it past the time the squawk was lost? Hmmm.. There is more to this than meets the eye I think.
Time will tell.
Last edited by yssy.ymel; 10th Mar 2014 at 07:35. Reason: The aliens probably did do it.
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And to think I've been wasting my time here
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So, with 50,000kg on board, you could fly for about 7 hours (and reserves) and go about 2000nm.
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I appreciate there are fine differences in the scenarios of disappearance, but do the media seem to be making more of the issue of a/c or debris not yet being located yet than in previous similar incidents?
I'm pretty sure in time gone by there have been aircraft lost at sea that have taken a little while to find (it was about five days for AF447?); and it just strikes me that the mainstream news outlets are more than ever - even by their standards - making an issue that 2.5 days in there's still no sign; like it's completely unprecedented and totally incomprehensible.
Is it me, or maybe there's a Moore's Law of media flabbergast?
I'm pretty sure in time gone by there have been aircraft lost at sea that have taken a little while to find (it was about five days for AF447?); and it just strikes me that the mainstream news outlets are more than ever - even by their standards - making an issue that 2.5 days in there's still no sign; like it's completely unprecedented and totally incomprehensible.
Is it me, or maybe there's a Moore's Law of media flabbergast?
In case of TWA 800, a large piece of the wing was found in the ocean the day after the incident.
Finding no trace of the aircraft at 60+ hours after it goes missing, in a densely populated region, is quite unusual and the media is justified in making it an issue.