Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

[alloha]

I ve been in KLIA twice (last time 2 years ago).Immigration checks carried out thoroughly (even when they noticed the official invitation from MAS for assessment ) as well as the security checks on my flights back to Europe ( 2 points of security,first after the immigration and the second right on the boarding gate,where i forced to leave two bottles of water,as i didnt expect second security check). So i am bit surprised about concerns for the security in KLIA. As far as it goes for the passport issue ,one of them was not on the INTERPOL missing list but still no clue what went wrong with the other one,especially on a flight bound to China where visa restrictions are quite strict .

[llondel]

Given that the recorders should be emitting audible pings if they're intact and under water, I would have thought the searchers would have deployed an array of sonobuoys to listen. Perhaps they have, it's not something the media would think of reporting to the general public unless they ended up being responsible for finding the orange boxes.

[Seven]

Of ALL the accident threads on PPRuNe over the years this one is by far the most embarrassing to read. By a country mile.

Not too sure about that - there have been some pearlers over the years.

As far as cringeworthy or embarassing coverage about MH370 goes, however, most of the comments here seem almost benign.

It's appalling to see so many so called "esteemed" media outlets from a host of countries running a gaggle of images of bewildered and clearly devastated individuals who seem to be desperately trying to make sense of the situation and shield themseleves from the invasive shutterbugs at the same time. Stories are smattered with cliches, conspiracy theories and speculation presented as fact.

One does expect this with the usual suspects, but it seems the slightest hint of an information vacuum appears reason enough for the "respected" media sources to climb on to the bandwagon as well. Of course, all in the name of "public interest".

[p.j.m]

Originally Posted by Paragraph377

- Terrorism. Over water is a favourite/preferred method of terrorists when it comes to those sort of acts as it is harder for investigators to find key pieces of evidence and proof. The fact the aircraft was lost over water at such a height and between two bodies of land would have to be considered as a possibility.

Again, so many possibilities with so little evidence at this stage. However all our thoughts should be prioritised towards the families and friends of those killed, as well as those good people at Malaysian who will be distraught at this event. R.I.P

Given the lack of debris found, in an area of dense marine traffic, and the sudden loss of all telemetry, and 6 or 7 hours of fuel onboard, in the dead of night, if the aircraft was hijacked, where would be the limits it could travel to?

I'm thinking the "*stans" are not outside the realms of possibility.

[thaiphoon]

New Straits Times is reporting that another Malaysian Airlines flight made contact wi

I sincerely doubt that another a/c established contact with MH370 at 01:30 as MH370 had plunged already more than an hour earlier.

[Jack1985]

Breaking news on Sky News now that, Malaysian Authorities have confirmed four passengers are being investigated following the ''receipt'' of information from Interpol. A news conference by Malaysia's Transport Minister will follow on Sky News very shortly.

[StormyKnight]

@letsjet Not sure what the protocol is for a new thread or even if one is permitted on the same incident....Perhaps after 48 hours we start again?

It has been quite a while since the last incident, so I guessing everyones "in for a chat", but to be honest I have read the whole thread, & there is very little wild speculation, almost all of it is possible & given the lack of contrary evidence to date no one can conclude that anyones post doesn't have some possible truth to it. They are all theories anyway after all!

Theres plenty of stuff posted that I didn't think myself of as being a possibility, both technical & left field...but it all goes into the pot for me to decide what I think may have happened.

Also a splattering of "newbie" questions helps sort out some of the misinformation & perhaps corrects some assumptions made by more experienced persons.

The number of graphics I have seen with the flight travelling direct from A to B is astounding. Just shows how much the news stations don't know about flight lanes & great circles. Luckily they are not in control of SAR (Search & Rescue).

Yes the thread is long, real details are slow to come to light, every little bit of new information will have several pages spent on it to determine its worth, especially if you only get a bit every 6 hours or more...

[Capt Kremin]

There are numerous air defence radars in the area. Some of them would have tracked the primary return of the aircraft.

Switching off the transponder and flying elsewhere, undetected, is not really credible.

[cockpitvisit]

Originally Posted by llondel

if the aircraft was hijacked, where would be the limits it could travel to?

If the aircraft was flown somewhere else by hijackers, it would not have disappeared from the radar (even if the hijackers turned the transponder off).

[k12345]

Did anyone notice on the flight radar 24 track from the same flight number last night, the tracking signal seems disappear around about 40minutes into flight, then comes back on 21 minutes late at the tip of Vietnam. Same thing on the 1st March as well.

The tracking always seems to stop on these occasions as the aircraft turns from 25 degrees to 38 degrees. On other days the signal is apparent the whole way across to Vietnam. (weather/atmospheric conditions perhaps cause the loss of sign on some days??)

Anyway, that gives a rough distance of ~220km and a fairly short flying time between A and B for the search teams assuming it kept the same heading.

If last signal ATC contact was potentially around 1.30am (10mins after it goes off the flight radar screen) Then plane would have been perhaps only ~110km off of the Vietnam coast at that point.

Doesn't seem like that big an area to search if using grids with multiple S&R aircraft and it is near impossible for something to drop out of the sky without noticeable debris being scatter around if there was an explosion.

The search and rescue seems very badly organised from what i've seen and compared to the s&r of other aircraft lost at sea in recent years (Helicopters, North Sea).

[guestofguest]

Stolen passport holders' journey

Italian:
Mar 8, CZ748, 00：35-6：30 KUL-PEK

Mar 8, CZ767, 11:55-15:15 PEK-AMS

Mar 8, CZ7737, 20：55-22：20 AMS-CPH

Ticket No. 784-*******099

Austrian：
Mar 8, CZ748, 00：35-6：30 KUL-PEK

Mar 8, CZ767, 11:55-15:15 PEK-AMS

Mar 8, CZ7689, 21:05-22:25 AMS-FRA

Ticket No. 784-*******100

[ChristySweet]

Clarify; emergency frequency used in last known communication

RE Post 563

I wonder about the credibility of the Captain who was quoted as saying he had a conversation:

"He said those on the same frequency at the time would have heard the exchange.

This, he said, would include vessels on the waters below."

The Maritime Mobile Service uses frequencies in the range 150-160 MHz using Frequency Modulation, and well as some HF SSB. The aeronautical service uses frequencies between 108 and 132 MHz, using Amplitude Modulation, as well as some HF SSB.

The HF SSB frequencies are not in common between the services, unless we are talking about 2182 or 5680 kHz, the distress frequencies.

Two aircraft half an hour apart at 35,000 feet should be able to talk very clearly on VHF, where the boats below would not be listening (unless military). However I wonder why he would be using HF if VHF was adequate?

According to the article at New Strait Times link ;

....the captain, who asked to not be named, said his plane, which was bound for Narita, Japan, was far into Vietnamese airspace when he was asked to relay, using his plane's emergency frequency, to MH370 for the latter to establish its position, as the authorities could not contact the aircraft.

[camel]

news conference:

Search area extended due to possiblity air turn back.

Oil slick found by vietnamese but no debris yet reported.

Passenger manifest/ passport discrepency issues being investigated by international agency's .

No contact made by any another pilot after radar contact lost.

[jugofpropwash]

If one flies low enough, is it possible to be "below radar" and therefore not tracked, or is that one of those things that only works in the movies?

[Mahatma Kote]

Military Radar - better than Civilian

Military Primary Radar has the ability to measure altitude and also compute bearing and speed. They have to do this to vector interceptor aircraft or missiles.

This was shown in TWA 800 where radar returns after transponder failure were used to determine the trajectory and velocity of the major components. This was done by the NTSB using military system software.

[Capt Kremin]

Primary radar only gives lat and long, it does not give FL, speed or heading. I would be extremely concerned if any pilots thought otherwise.

Primary radar records can and are used to deduce all those parameters, with the possible exception of altitude, in accident investigations.

See the report for Egypt Air 990.

[Ida down]

Very Ex BA might be on the money, 4 PAX now suspect, and FBI called in. Still no sign of aircraft.

[Novezeil]

At where the MAS conference took place, one of the relatives said his brother was one of the passengers on board, and his phone, which has a singapore number, has successfully been dialed.

However till now, the recent two dial has not got any responses. Malaysia authority has recorded this number for further investigation.

[mm43]

NTSB - Press Release

March 8, 2014
The National Transportation Safety Board has a team of investigators en route to Asia to be ready to assist with the investigation of the March 8 Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 event. The Boeing 777 went missing on a flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

Once the location of the airplane is determined, International Civil Aviation Organization protocols will determine which country will lead the investigation.
Because of the lengthy travel time from the United States, the NTSB has sent a team of investigators, accompanied by technical advisers from Boeing and the Federal Aviation Administration, to the area so they will be positioned to offer U.S. assistance. The team departed from the U.S. tonight.

The country that leads the investigation will release all information about it.

[Una Due Tfc]

If you have enough readings from PSR, you can deduce heading, what i'm saying is SSR gives live, factual readings of heading, received from the transponder, PSR is all guestimation