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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 11th Mar 2014, 03:58
  #1561 (permalink)  
 
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@Hedge36

Agree completely but that was not the question I was responding to.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 04:01
  #1562 (permalink)  
 
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why should they explain

You may think that the airline (or govt) only needs to repond to relatives but all of us do have a stake in knowing that our present and future safety in air travel is assured and will not be subject to coverups.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 04:03
  #1563 (permalink)  
 
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woodja
Very interesting post and video highlighting a serious security weakness.
Your efforts to bring it to the attention of the powers that be should be applauded. I would question however, whether a public forum along with YouTube are sensible places to disseminate such information. Clearly many on this planet have some weird neuro-wiring, and I wouldn't like to think they got the idea for the next aviation disaster from your video.

There was a punchup with the blockheads some 70yrs ago, and posters on the London underground used to say "Ssshhh, loose lips sink ships!"
I'm not saying this glaring security hole shouldn't be fixed, just that these places may not be the most prudent to air such weaknesses in our systems.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 04:04
  #1564 (permalink)  
 
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To Mr Hedge 36...

Er......

In the 'Public Interest'..???
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 04:04
  #1565 (permalink)  
 
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hedge36, because we fly planes too, and we're worried it might happen to us..
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 04:07
  #1566 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by harryw
You may think that the airline (or govt) only needs to repond to relatives but all of us do have a stake in knowing that our present and future safety in air travel is assured and will not be subject to coverups.
Well, that's a lovely sentiment. Unfortunately, at this point, without an aircraft there's little one can do but wait. That nothing new has been learned as of yet means nothing has changed with regard to your safety, and no evidence has yet been unearthed regarding a coverup.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 04:09
  #1567 (permalink)  
 
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Philipat

1 . They said there may be indications on military radar of a 'turn back' and also that those indications might be confirmed by singapore..but no details

2 They are most likely not allowed to disclose details of any information. at least not until the aircraft is found, which might then verify the 'indications of a turn back' especially if coming from another country.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 04:13
  #1568 (permalink)  
 
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MH update

Malaysia Updatel
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 04:16
  #1569 (permalink)  
 
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Discussion. Not speculation.

Creds: A PP (737/767/A330) who is only SLF when the company makes me.

Does the 777 QRH procedure for smoke shed electrical sources as dramatically as the Airbus? 767 IIRC just sheds high draw items likely to burn up (recirc fans et al) but leaves the AC buses powered. Be nice if I'm wrong as this memory is from my previous type and it's been a few years.

Shed electrics and descend (in preparation for smoke clearance) and of course LAND ASAP are all standard actions for profuse unknown smoke. I don't have access to a 777 QRH, but it's not a far leap to wonder if the procedure sheds enough electric sources and buses to interrupt the ACARS/Mode C transmissions which have been so profusely fretted over here. Never mind the burdonsome comms while on mask and goggles.

Though it's not as if this scenario has been discussed wrt the 777 lately.

FAA: Some Boeing 777s need fixes in case of fires

If the flight turned back towards land in search of that ASAP landing, they spent no small amount of time flying away from the last known position. I've not seen that map of current search area - apologies if it covers this scenario.

Let's hope not for speedy resolution but an accurate one which prevents another loss.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 04:16
  #1570 (permalink)  
 
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Av Herald: A possible debris field reported by Cathay Crew enroute to KL

Crash: Malaysia B772 over Gulf of Thailand on Mar 8th 2014, aircraft missing
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 04:19
  #1571 (permalink)  
 
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The left red box is a long way to not be spotted on primary radar!
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 04:19
  #1572 (permalink)  
 
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Hedge, probably because the whole industry is jittery right now. And that includes the PAX. Its in the interest of all, for whatever happened, be released as soon as possible, as they have always done. People, given something concrete to deal with, find is easier than facts kept behind closed doors. The industry needs to know what happened to that aircraft, and as soon as possible.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 04:19
  #1573 (permalink)  
 
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Re: Earlier comment about the 2009 Air France recorder recovery:
Debris does not mean answers. With AFR447, there were some details transmitted from the aircraft via ACARS that night. However, the full picture of what actually happened (including the prolonged stall and a stall warning that only functioned when the aircraft was starting to recover from the stall due to the computer disregarding very low airspeed indications) as well as crew inputs were not known until the flight recorders were recovered. That happened in mid 2011, about two years after the accident. Air France and the French government tried with great effort to locate the flight recorders before giving up and hiring Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution to find the recorders. Phoenix International recovered them shortly thereafter.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 04:21
  #1574 (permalink)  
 
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Also - China deploys 10 satellites to help in search for Malaysia jet

China deploys 10 satellites to help in search for Malaysia jet | Reuters
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 04:25
  #1575 (permalink)  
 
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training wheels wrote:

BTW, we do check that pressurization is normal passing 10,000 ft, and I'm sure many other airlines will have the same procedure as well, for obvious reasons. Of the thousands of flights I've done, I've had two instances where pressurization wasn't normal passing 10,000 ft, one resulting in an RTB (return to base) and the other, maintaining altitude until the problem was rectified (as it was a simple fix). In our case, pressurization was a problem; could it have been the same for MH370?
Aside from the Payne Stewart Learjet incident there has been another prominent case of crew and PAX being knocked out by hypoxia. Helios Airways flight 522 in 2005, a Boeing 737.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522

The problem was simply that the pressurisation system was set to "manual" instead of "automatic". The 737 flew on auto until fuel was empty and crashed.

In case of MH370 I wonder where it would have ended up in such a scenario. For sure it would have gone far, but it should have attracted attention somewhere on the way?
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 04:27
  #1576 (permalink)  
 
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If they think the aircraft attempted to turn back, then why are they looking in the Malacca Strait? Unless the maps are deceptive, from the last known location, a return to origin would be just west of south. The Malacca Strait is west. That doesn't sound like "turning back."
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 04:27
  #1577 (permalink)  
 
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A shootdown ?

What target do you go in search of in darkness and at 2 am ?
Any hi-jackers may have done just a little planning I would have thought.


If that would be a serious option perhaps closer to the end of the flight would make a statement and be some form of possibility, certainly as far as seeing a potential target goes.

I don't see anything that suggests the aircraft has been taken over.
After 3 or 4 days I also doubt very much that the media, and us, are getting told anything like the real facts. This certainly is a strange one and I feel for the friends and relatives.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 04:32
  #1578 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ida down
Hedge, probably because the whole industry is jittery right now. And that includes the PAX. Its in the interest of all, for whatever happened, be released as soon as possible, as they have always done. People, given something concrete to deal with, find is easier than facts kept behind closed doors. The industry needs to know what happened to that aircraft, and as soon as possible.
Oh, trust me - I agree with the need to get pertinent information out as quickly as possible. However, I don't believe any pertinent information yet exists.

If, by chance, some miscreant or gang of miscreants brought this aircraft down by force (be it an explosive or a hijacking gone wrong), we won't know the full nature of their actions for quite some time. As a result, we can't be any more mindful of our environment than we are at this very moment.

If the aircraft failed, we won't know THAT for a long time, either.

And yes, I agree that the Malaysian government bears a responsibility to our industry to disseminate whatever information they glean from this case as quickly as possible. I just don't think they know anything.

The general public, facts or no facts, will be unnerved by this incident. Regardless of the cause, the perceptual damage to the industry is already done, yet the flying public seems to have an unreasonable expectation that the case be wrapped up before the evening repeat of American Idol (42 minutes, if you record it and skip the adverts).

It seems the local guv has plainly stated that the odd search area is due to the possibility that the aircraft turned. What else could be covered up at this point?
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 04:32
  #1579 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks to Pom pax link we now have times an cycles.
AFTT: 53465.2
Cycles: 7525

I would note on the Southwest 737 the total cycles was 39,786. BUT, they estimate the first crack started at about 1500 cycles.

Ntsb report in word format, with pretty pictures of the bird is here: http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2013/AAB1302.pdf

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that this could be a failure do to a hidden manufacturing defect.
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Old 11th Mar 2014, 04:37
  #1580 (permalink)  
 
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If they think the aircraft attempted to turn back, then why are they looking in the Malacca Strait?
Their search may have nothing to do with aircraft turning or not turning (evidence of either can be sketchy) . Perhaps they simply want to search everywhere their search assets can be easily dispatched because of easy logistics and/or distance - clearly other countries are covering other areas.
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