Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

[mabuhay_2000]

Passports and ICAO

The key word there is RECOMMENDATIONS.

Countries do not have to abide by them and many don't. The security features vary from several sophisticated features to hardly any!

And security features are rendered pointless if the operators at immigration desks cannot recognise problems with them!

[Spencerconnor]

My point about RR monitoring the Trent engine is twofold.
Firstly, a live time data stream would provide a definitive timescale and secondly but crucially would indicate flight after the transponder ceased.

[Old Boeing Driver]

@mabuhay_2000

If the radars were operable and properly manned. At the point they lost contact, they would have only been read by longer range type radar, which may not see a primary blip at that distance. (would be primary if transponder switched off)

Closer in the radar is a bit better and probably would set off some alerts.

Your mention of a lot of different people not wanting to share info is undoubtedly correct. I perceive a big "turf" war there, and the left hand will not let the right hand have any information.

Food for thought. There are a lot of training scenarios going on in that region where fighters intercept airliners for practice.

A few years ago, an F-4 hit a Spanish DC-9 and everyone but the F-4 RIO died.

Not saying this is the case, but someone there knows more than what is being published.

[flipperb]

As the search stretches on without success, I'm inclined to wonder if the loss of Comms might have been separated from the loss of the a/c by some considerable amount of time.

Is there a scenario in which something knocks out all Comms, transponder, etc. but leaves the a/c otherwise operational? Perhaps a fire, and the crew tried to troubleshoot for several minutes (or longer) until the flight control systems were disrupted?

Such a scenario might put the crash site dozens or even hundreds of miles from where Comms were lost.

[mabuhay_2000]

@OBD

Thanks for the radar pointer.

There are a lot of historical tensions between countries in this region. Malaysia-Singapore, Thailand-Cambodia/Laos, Vietnam-China, Philippines-China, Indonesia-Malaysia, etc.

The Chinese are already having a pop at the Malaysians about the perceived lack of effort and information they're providing.

Does anybody know why the US is the only lot searching the Straits of Malacca? And why they are? When the aircraft would have had to have flown all the way back across Malaysia?

Seems odd.

[Globally]

Inadvertent thrust reverser deployment?

I recall a Lauda Air Boeing 767 that went down coincidentally in the same theater maybe 20 years ago, due to inadvertent t/r deployment during climb. Twin engine along the centerline like the 777. T/R opening in flight was supposed to be fail-safe, but it occurred nevertheless.

[Una Due Tfc]

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I was out playing golf earlier and something occured to me.

ADS bangs out a position report to whatever ATC center the aircraft is logged on to the moment Altitude or heading change, where no ADS reports received?

[DB64]

It wasn't.
If the B777 were to have some nasty secrets it would have been uncovered by now. It's been in service for a long time.
For any pilot trained om the B777, it takes a bomb to remove it from the map just like that.

Isn't that somewhat presumptive? "Nasty secrets" have often remained hidden for many years before they bite.

[LGW Vulture]

For comparative purposes only, the Adam Air 574 wreckage took nine days to discover. The CVR and FDR were recovered some eight months later!

[Organfreak]

Firstly, a live time data stream would provide a definitive timescale and secondly but crucially would indicate flight after the transponder ceased.

Don'tcha think that RR might have, er, called somebody in that case?

[Old Boeing Driver]

Pressure Dome

"It wasn't.
If the B777 were to have some nasty secrets it would have been uncovered by now. It's been in service for a long time.
For any pilot trained om the B777, it takes a bomb to remove it from the map just like that."

If I remember correctly, a faulty repair by Boeing brought JAL 123 down.

[Old Boeing Driver]

Straits of Malacca

There were posts a long time ago asking the same question as to why the US was searching the Straits of Malacca.

Some answers were:

They have a P-3 base nearby and do regular SAR training.

One of the interested countries asked the US to search that particular area.

Someone knows something and wants to get their stories and evidence straight.

I know that last one entails a conspiracy, but this is a rumor network.

[John Farley]

mabuhay 2000 in post 1417 makes some very interesting and relevant observations.

If I was involved and could request one bit of information to help consider the various possible scenarios it would be be the detail behind the oft mentioned quote that the aircraft may have turned back. Presumably this was based on radar paints - but if so how many and what did they actually show?

[MG23]

Originally Posted by Una Due Tfc

ADS bangs out a position report to whatever ATC center the aircraft is logged on to the moment Altitude or heading change, where no ADS reports received?

None were received by the online ADS-spotters in the region after contact was lost. That doesn't necessarily mean none were received by ATC, as they presumably have better coverage, but it seems likely that no more were sent.

[GarageYears]

If the wingtip had "fallen off" and the aircraft kept flying (albeit severely compromised), wouldn't you think the crew might have sent out a radio call or two, eh? Anything remotely similar, short of a catastrophic structural failure, wouldn't have rendered the crew silent on the situation I'd wager.

Given the lack of discovery to date and the search areas being looked at, it would seem:

a) All comms was lost with the aircraft at time X
b) The aircraft crashed at some later time X+Y

There were also some oddities related to the passenger list (funky passports), but that fact isn't connected yet...

There, I think I've summed up all 73 pages.

[mixture]

To prevent the use of mobiles already aboard held by crew and passengers, a couple of mobile phone jammers could have been taken aboard, they are quite effective and some look like wireless access points so could easily be mistaken for a bit of IT kit by airside security.

As has been pointed out already, the pro-mobile brigade are clutching at straws. There could be any number of reasons you could hear a ringback tone on a mobile beyond it just ringing in someone's pocket....

Also, its the 21st century.... its 300 tonnes of aircraft that the whole world is looking for. Even assuming there were jammers galore and the passengers were bound and gagged.... many people outside of that aircraft would have (a) seen it on its way to land (b) seen it on the tarmac. All viable airfields have no doubt been already checked through satellite imagery and local reports. If it landed in once piece, the world would have heard about it by now !

The mobile phone ideas simply have no legs and are simply nothing more than optimistic and hopeful thinking on the part of the unfortunate bereaved families (for whom I have every sympathy and send condolences).

[Old Boeing Driver]

@ John Farley

Good post.

I have been suspicious since the Malaysians first mentioned their radar showed the plane turned back.

2 things.

If they saw it turn back, did they lose radar contact at that time? At least they would have had a heading to use.

Next, if THEY saw it turn back, did anyone else, and how long did they track it.

Notice that their statement about turning back has not been mentioned again in any briefings.

Are they withholding info?

[Nialler]

A question from a SFL to you pilots out there:

Is it a regular occurrence that checked-in passengers don't board?

I'm sure that it i something you would notice. Does it happen often?

I'm ot asking in the sense of building on top of the multiple conspiracy theories that are already proliferating out there at the moment; just trying to establish something which can only be an anecdotal point of reference.

[joy ride]

Nasty secrets? Someone referred to this a day or two ago:

Lap joints focus of new Boeing 777 directive: FAA - 7/20/2012 - Flight Global

[overthewing]

So, we don't know yet when the last ACARS transmission was received? And how this correlates with the last transponder contact? Or the last 'ET calling home' message from the engines?

Presumably the Malaysian authorities must have access to all relevant information. If all sources of communication stopped at about the same time, the most likely reason is that the aircraft is in the sea near the last known transponder position. If not, it suggests that something odd was going on.

Is this why they're searching to the west of the Malaysian peninsula? Because they have reason to think the plane was still active after the transponder stopped?