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Old 5th Apr 2014, 16:57   #9201 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XB70_Valkyrie
Astounding this goes from the Chinese-> media instead of to the search team.
Watch the report in Post #9286 again.

The reporter states that China and Australia authorities had been notified.
No surprise Malaysia is quiet, Australia is supervising this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PortVale
Chinese press on board the vessel
Why the surprise ?

Western media reps have been present on numerous flights.
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Old 5th Apr 2014, 17:08   #9202 (permalink)
 
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If this vessel is ploughing its own furrow miles away from the main search sites, I'd say it was highly unlikely they would be detecting a 'test tone' from another ship.

I would also like to think that anyone generating 37.5KHz anywhere near other search vessels, would let everyone know when and for how long they were doing it.
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Old 5th Apr 2014, 17:25   #9203 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
xman80

What do you think happens when you stop towing a weight behind a ship? No wonder it doesn't make sense to you.
I guess towed arrays come in many different forms, but the ones I've seen were in tubes filled with a paraffin-type substance to give them neutral buoyancy.
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Old 5th Apr 2014, 17:26   #9204 (permalink)
 
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sorry Pontius Navigator

devices are made in differing types and can descend below the surface or some types stay on the surface
both can set to listen at different depths etc etc

so a 4000m cable you suggest ? - of course a surface sonar would not hear it

also re wreckage the OP was responding to my original post where i stated
If the MH370 had crashed in that region then any floating small wreckage will be soon reaching the shores of Western Australia due the prevailing weather and sea conditions

seems you may not been reading the whole thread either

Last edited by rog747; 5th Apr 2014 at 17:47.
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Old 5th Apr 2014, 17:32   #9205 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
If it was away from the main search site and just happened to trip over the jackpot, I'd like to know how.
According to one report, debris has /had been reported in the area. Perhaps they were investigating that?

Quote:
Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston said: "The characteristics reported are consistent with the aircraft black box. A number of white objects were also sighted on the surface about 90 kilometres from the detection area.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/missing-pl...1.html#QZGXWSG
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Old 5th Apr 2014, 17:37   #9206 (permalink)
 
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Crikey there's come cynical folk posting. So they've possibly found something, great news.

Perhaps the Chinese vessel was relocating from one search area to another? If it was out-of-area, there are lots of innocent explanations why.
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Old 5th Apr 2014, 17:41   #9207 (permalink)
 
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what happens if this is the FDR/CVR and the Chinese get hold of it - who then undertakes the data/tape play back and investigation??
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Old 5th Apr 2014, 17:45   #9208 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
I guess towed arrays come in many different forms, but the ones I've seen were in tubes filled with a paraffin-type substance to give them neutral buoyancy.
Absolutely right! However if you look at the device used it looked very much like a single hydrophone.

The American detectors are being towed by HMS Echo and HMAS Success. HMS Echo has sidescan sonar and specialises in ocean survey including sea bed. She has been used extensively in the Mediterranean (agreed much shallower) to successfully find wrecks.
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Old 5th Apr 2014, 18:04   #9209 (permalink)
 
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@catch 21

I see your point - but in that case why towing equipment which has been said many times to be very slow? Wouldn't you want to reach the other side ASAP? Or is it common to keep on surveying on route to another search side?

I am not claiming any conspiracy but it seems that it is quite unusual, indicating that as we all know there is probably more info we do not know about.

If they have found something it would be great in any case!
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Old 5th Apr 2014, 18:07   #9210 (permalink)
 
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@catch21
Quote:
Perhaps the Chinese vessel was relocating from one search area to another? If it was out-of-area, there are lots of innocent explanations why.
I've been surprised at the cynicism and hostility, too. If they've found something, great.

Even if they were out of area, which is rather speculative at the moment, personally I'd rather that they were out of area and found something than in area and didn't...
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Old 5th Apr 2014, 18:07   #9211 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
what happens if this is the FDR/CVR and the Chinese get hold of it - who then undertakes the data/tape play back and investigation??
Anything discovered relative to airplane parts will belong to Malaysia. They have the legal right to determine what happens to them, and who gets them, when,and how.
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Old 5th Apr 2014, 18:58   #9212 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Opendoor, yes, he is indeed wrong.
Oops, and Seacom made the pingers for MH370

Last edited by OPENDOOR; 5th Apr 2014 at 19:03. Reason: addition
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Old 5th Apr 2014, 19:00   #9213 (permalink)
 
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Chinese working in isolation

Over the past 10-15 days I've been checking in with marine traffic (AIS) for the region. While not definitive, when I have seen a Chinese patrol or research vessel declared to be SAR, they have not been in the designated search areas.

It appeared that at least some Chinese assets were "on their own".
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Old 5th Apr 2014, 19:15   #9214 (permalink)
 
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Other uses for 37.5khz?

From the NPR report on the Xinhua story:
Quote:
We'll caution that the signal hasn't yet been investigated, and it's too early to draw a connection to the missing flight MH370. The signal's frequency is 37.5 kHz, according to Xinhua. That's the frequency underwater locator beacons use to transmit their location; it's also reportedly used by other systems.
I thought that 37.5khz was chosen partly because it was unique.
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Old 5th Apr 2014, 19:15   #9215 (permalink)
 
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The ULB batteries are 30 days @4c . Does any one know the sea bed temp at pinger location. I understand the unit is powered by lithium ion batteries, how are these affected by temp.
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Old 5th Apr 2014, 19:22   #9216 (permalink)
 
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Deep ocean water is uniformly somewhat below 4 C, usually 1-3 C.
So the battery life expectancy was set to reflect expected conditions.
Afaik, lithium batteries drop their power pretty steeply once past their rated duty service, so there is not much time left to pick up the pinger.

Last edited by etudiant; 5th Apr 2014 at 21:35. Reason: correction
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Old 5th Apr 2014, 19:30   #9217 (permalink)
 
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If the Chinese actually have picked up the pinger off the black boxes, my guess is that they were led to them by some sort of high tech military technology they don't want the rest of us to know they have. Whether that is satellite imaging, submarines or something else... Hard to believe they just accidentally stumbled upon the scene.
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Old 5th Apr 2014, 19:38   #9218 (permalink)

 
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Quote:
what happens if this is the FDR/CVR and the Chinese get hold of it - who then undertakes the data/tape play back and investigation??
You may have noticed a couple of weeks ago, the Australian Government put out a press release including diplomatic channels saying all items recovered must be returned to Perth first etc etc.

It was widely reported that this was directed at the Chinese without specifically saying so.

Reading between the lines, Certainly under currents within / in the SAR effort regardless of the smiles from the air side.


Quote:
But it would also be good if they left the release of information, verified or otherwise, to the lead investigating authority. I'd then feel a little more convinced that it's less about PR and more about finding the aircraft.
A number of bits of information seem to have come via the Chinese
- from what I can gather - Chinese ship - to China - Chinese news releases information - someone from the SAR Effort comments.

I think this is China playing to domestic and making sure it is seen to be active, for the same reasons I have said before, previous tardy response to emergencies.
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Old 5th Apr 2014, 19:40   #9219 (permalink)
 
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If the signals are from MH370's boxes and the source can triangulated, surely it doesn't matter if the batteries run out before they can be retrieved. If AF447's black boxes could be retrieved two years after the accident, surely these boxes and the wreckage will be found too? Or am I missing something?
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Old 5th Apr 2014, 19:44   #9220 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronus View Post
The ULB batteries are 30 days @4c . Does any one know the sea bed temp at pinger location. I understand the unit is powered by lithium ion batteries, how are these affected by temp.
Lithium based batteries have better than average performance at low temps and have much lower self-discharge than NiCd or NiMH.

Lithium-based Batteries Information - Battery University
Choices of Primary Batteries - Battery University
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