BALPA GS Election - Q & A
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John
I retired seven years ago and the outcome of this election will have absolutely no effect on me at all. My concern is that this is not a ballot between two or more people, any of whom is genuinely standing for the job. The membership is voting for CD or A N Other and that is not how elections should be held.
If CD is not reelected, the membership will have not have voted for the new Gen Sec. Frankly, the prospect of the NEC being in a position to choose the Gen Sec concerns me, why bother with elections for the members next time round at all?
Your resorting to insults confirms my suspicions that there is something not quite right about this set up as it is being presented.
I retired seven years ago and the outcome of this election will have absolutely no effect on me at all. My concern is that this is not a ballot between two or more people, any of whom is genuinely standing for the job. The membership is voting for CD or A N Other and that is not how elections should be held.
If CD is not reelected, the membership will have not have voted for the new Gen Sec. Frankly, the prospect of the NEC being in a position to choose the Gen Sec concerns me, why bother with elections for the members next time round at all?
Your resorting to insults confirms my suspicions that there is something not quite right about this set up as it is being presented.
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Nickp,
I am sorry my remarks came across as an insult they were not intended as such; they were only intended as a clear statement.
Like you I will shortly be retired; I would like to leave the association in better shape than it presently is. I would observe that if you have been retired for seven years you have possibly been spared the discontent that has arisen within BALPA. Ignoring that division and discontent is not a wise course of action. If left to fester it will only get worse and not having this election would do that very thing. I take your point that the outcome will not affect you either way.
I do not quite understand your statement about the NEC being in a position to choose the GS. They are presently involved in an election only because I have stood against CD otherwise you would not have had any choice at all. You seem to be of the opinion that this make me less democratic somehow. I do not understand your point.
The NEC can offer a candidate for election and that election may or may not be contested; as it is now. It is unlikely however that it would be CD again if the election result went against him. I say again; I hope to find a replacement acceptable to all.
Regards,
John
I am sorry my remarks came across as an insult they were not intended as such; they were only intended as a clear statement.
Like you I will shortly be retired; I would like to leave the association in better shape than it presently is. I would observe that if you have been retired for seven years you have possibly been spared the discontent that has arisen within BALPA. Ignoring that division and discontent is not a wise course of action. If left to fester it will only get worse and not having this election would do that very thing. I take your point that the outcome will not affect you either way.
I do not quite understand your statement about the NEC being in a position to choose the GS. They are presently involved in an election only because I have stood against CD otherwise you would not have had any choice at all. You seem to be of the opinion that this make me less democratic somehow. I do not understand your point.
The NEC can offer a candidate for election and that election may or may not be contested; as it is now. It is unlikely however that it would be CD again if the election result went against him. I say again; I hope to find a replacement acceptable to all.
Regards,
John
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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John,
I see that Chris Darke is involved with the Competition Commissioner
http://www.competition-commission.or...i-bin/expiscor (then search: darke)
Has he done so with the authority of the NEC? And would I be right in my reading of their accounts that it involves 1 1/2 days a week. I also note in the accounts that members get paid for this.
If the answer to my question is yes, as a member of the NEC could you advise me why they have approved a 31/2 day a week GS or am I missing something? (like it's actually the film critic who is on the Competition Commission.)
I was interested to note that there is nothing on the chrisdarke.com that meantions this other interest. Is it something that we should know
I see that Chris Darke is involved with the Competition Commissioner
http://www.competition-commission.or...i-bin/expiscor (then search: darke)
Has he done so with the authority of the NEC? And would I be right in my reading of their accounts that it involves 1 1/2 days a week. I also note in the accounts that members get paid for this.
If the answer to my question is yes, as a member of the NEC could you advise me why they have approved a 31/2 day a week GS or am I missing something? (like it's actually the film critic who is on the Competition Commission.)
I was interested to note that there is nothing on the chrisdarke.com that meantions this other interest. Is it something that we should know
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sky9,
I have only become aware of this fact within the last week. I was not informed of this extra activity on his part; and I’m on the NEC.
I cannot begin to express my feelings on this revelation and I will be raising the matter for discussion at the earliest opportunity.
I have contacted several other NEC members and have been advised that they did not know either.
Regards,
John.
I have only become aware of this fact within the last week. I was not informed of this extra activity on his part; and I’m on the NEC.
I cannot begin to express my feelings on this revelation and I will be raising the matter for discussion at the earliest opportunity.
I have contacted several other NEC members and have been advised that they did not know either.
Regards,
John.
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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Fred
I draw your attention to this page 19. It seems like Chris Darke to me
http://www.competition-commission.or...iew/cc2000.pdf
I draw your attention to this page 19. It seems like Chris Darke to me
http://www.competition-commission.or...iew/cc2000.pdf
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John,
In the event that CD wins the election, given that you are so passionately anti CD, will you and your NEC supporters:
be willing to work with CD?
or resign from the NEC?
or try to set up a separate BA pilots' uniion?
In the event that CD wins the election, given that you are so passionately anti CD, will you and your NEC supporters:
be willing to work with CD?
or resign from the NEC?
or try to set up a separate BA pilots' uniion?
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man u,
To be accurate we are pro democratic choice not anti CD. We do not believe that CD is the man for the job but if he is elected then I will certainly comply with the will of the members and work with him. I am concerned that he apparently has at least two jobs; Balpa and the competition commission.
I have always argued against a break away BA union and by standing I had hoped to reduce the problem by allowing people a say. People tend to accept situatuons provided they have had a choice and a democratic vote. This election is meant to be constructive and not destructive as some would have you believe.
As for whether Mervyn's first letter will hind this process remains to be seen.
Regards,
John
To be accurate we are pro democratic choice not anti CD. We do not believe that CD is the man for the job but if he is elected then I will certainly comply with the will of the members and work with him. I am concerned that he apparently has at least two jobs; Balpa and the competition commission.
I have always argued against a break away BA union and by standing I had hoped to reduce the problem by allowing people a say. People tend to accept situatuons provided they have had a choice and a democratic vote. This election is meant to be constructive and not destructive as some would have you believe.
As for whether Mervyn's first letter will hind this process remains to be seen.
Regards,
John
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We're Right Behind You John
John,
Just to say from a terribly junior man in your company, we're delighted that someone has finally had the courage to stand up and fight for a change from the unacceptable status quo. All power to you. You've got my vote and that of my peers.
Keeping my fingers crossed!
Just to say from a terribly junior man in your company, we're delighted that someone has finally had the courage to stand up and fight for a change from the unacceptable status quo. All power to you. You've got my vote and that of my peers.
Keeping my fingers crossed!
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Dear All,
Thanks for contributing to this thread. I have asked for the thread to be released into a free float, so that it does not remain artificially at the top of the list any more.
I will still be around for any questions but you will have to locate the thread as you would normally.
Regards,
John.
Thanks for contributing to this thread. I have asked for the thread to be released into a free float, so that it does not remain artificially at the top of the list any more.
I will still be around for any questions but you will have to locate the thread as you would normally.
Regards,
John.
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Much has been made on this thread (and others) about Chris Darke's connection with the Competition Commission. There appears to be some innuendo and much speculation but very little hard fact.
Here are the facts. The arrangement dates back a number of years and pre-dates John Frohnsdorff's arrival on the NEC. Not suprising therefore, that JF was not aware of it.
Chris Darke is categorised as an 'occasional member' of the Competition Commission. This means that he is not committed to the CompCom and is free to accept or reject work from them if it does not fit with his BALPA duties. Most of the work involves reading papers which CD is able to do in his own time at home in the evenings. Over the last twelve months, CD has undertaken a total of 10.5 (ten and a half) days work for the CompCom. Some have been in his own time and some on a joint basis with BALPA work.
I believe that this work will be of benefit to our members for the following reasons. It gains our General Secretary experience in competition issues, increases the number of contacts that BALPA has and gains stature for our Union.
If the predictions made for the next few years in European aviation are true - massive rationalisation and mergers leaving 5 major full service carriers and two charter carriers - the experience CD has gained in the CompCom would be invaluable to our members.
Recently, the number of helicopter operators on the North Sea has decreased from three to two when Bond and Brintel merged. The Chairman of the Company Council of the merged enterprise has gone on record as saying Chris Darke's experience and expertise in the CompCom was invaluable during the negotiations.
So there we have it. Not quite the juicy piece of gossip that all you Chris Darke bashers hoped for is it ? Still never mind, never spoil a good story by under-exaggerating eh chaps?
Here are the facts. The arrangement dates back a number of years and pre-dates John Frohnsdorff's arrival on the NEC. Not suprising therefore, that JF was not aware of it.
Chris Darke is categorised as an 'occasional member' of the Competition Commission. This means that he is not committed to the CompCom and is free to accept or reject work from them if it does not fit with his BALPA duties. Most of the work involves reading papers which CD is able to do in his own time at home in the evenings. Over the last twelve months, CD has undertaken a total of 10.5 (ten and a half) days work for the CompCom. Some have been in his own time and some on a joint basis with BALPA work.
I believe that this work will be of benefit to our members for the following reasons. It gains our General Secretary experience in competition issues, increases the number of contacts that BALPA has and gains stature for our Union.
If the predictions made for the next few years in European aviation are true - massive rationalisation and mergers leaving 5 major full service carriers and two charter carriers - the experience CD has gained in the CompCom would be invaluable to our members.
Recently, the number of helicopter operators on the North Sea has decreased from three to two when Bond and Brintel merged. The Chairman of the Company Council of the merged enterprise has gone on record as saying Chris Darke's experience and expertise in the CompCom was invaluable during the negotiations.
So there we have it. Not quite the juicy piece of gossip that all you Chris Darke bashers hoped for is it ? Still never mind, never spoil a good story by under-exaggerating eh chaps?
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LJ.543,
It is interesting that CD himself appears not to agree with your view point. His manifesto and web site could hardly be classified as shy and retiring; yet it completely omits to mention involvement with the competition commission. One would therefore assume that he feels it would not be advantageous to speard the word of this other job to the members.
I liked the idea that it is somehow acceptable that subsequent NEC committees should be kept in the Darke about a previous committee's decision. Why don't we expand that idea to our national general elections; it could be so much fun. Just imagine the previous conservative goverment saying to labour "Well we know you won the election but you weren't there when we bought Trident and so we are not obliged to give you the codes; so there!"
But hey; who am I to spoil your sterling attempt at spin!
Regards,
John
It is interesting that CD himself appears not to agree with your view point. His manifesto and web site could hardly be classified as shy and retiring; yet it completely omits to mention involvement with the competition commission. One would therefore assume that he feels it would not be advantageous to speard the word of this other job to the members.
I liked the idea that it is somehow acceptable that subsequent NEC committees should be kept in the Darke about a previous committee's decision. Why don't we expand that idea to our national general elections; it could be so much fun. Just imagine the previous conservative goverment saying to labour "Well we know you won the election but you weren't there when we bought Trident and so we are not obliged to give you the codes; so there!"
But hey; who am I to spoil your sterling attempt at spin!
Regards,
John
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Speaking as a master of spin, you should know!
As a new NEC member, do you expect to be briefed on every decision that every previous NEC has made back to the year dot?
Oh dear! Methinks he doth protest too much!!
PS sorry to spoil your little game.
As a new NEC member, do you expect to be briefed on every decision that every previous NEC has made back to the year dot?
Oh dear! Methinks he doth protest too much!!
PS sorry to spoil your little game.
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Wherever do you get that interpretation of John F's behaviour or what he says? I would say he has spoken nothing but stone cold common sense! If you are going to revert to abuse, can you give specific examples of 'spin' as you call it? What 'game' are you talking about? Are you completely sane?
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LJ.543,
It is perfectly reasonable to expect ,as a new NEC member, to be informed that the GS has other jobs. In fact I would expect that every member be informed; they all pay his salary and deserve as much. He does have a column in log he could have used for this purpose.
Regards,
John.
Notso,
Thanks.
Regards,
John
It is perfectly reasonable to expect ,as a new NEC member, to be informed that the GS has other jobs. In fact I would expect that every member be informed; they all pay his salary and deserve as much. He does have a column in log he could have used for this purpose.
Regards,
John.
Notso,
Thanks.
Regards,
John
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Interesting and thought provoking that John deals in facts, but 'innuendo' is certainly the method used by LJ.543.
FACT: Darke has a part time commitment to bodies other than his primary employer (us)
FACT: He does not bother to let us know about this. If it is all so much above board, one must wonder why.
FACT: Its only LJ who is apparently in the know about the frighteningly exact details of Darkes moonlighting. (Now how could he know that so accurately, details of reading at home,.......................?)
I like John's analogy re Trident, that sums it up quite well. We will all shortly see where we have voted, (you got my vote John!).
Finally, while I think LJ may be correct in his view of the medium term future and its challenges, some of us would say there have been a fair old number of changes and challenges in the LAST ten years. Darke's reaction to those has been to increase membership, increase BALPA deficit, and watch all our Ts and Cs decline steadily along with our remuneration. God only knows where we will be in another decade if CD stays at the helm.
(Tony Blair is always looking for good spin doctors though LJ, maybe you, Chris and Merv could get a position with New Labour!
)
FACT: Darke has a part time commitment to bodies other than his primary employer (us)
FACT: He does not bother to let us know about this. If it is all so much above board, one must wonder why.
FACT: Its only LJ who is apparently in the know about the frighteningly exact details of Darkes moonlighting. (Now how could he know that so accurately, details of reading at home,.......................?)
I like John's analogy re Trident, that sums it up quite well. We will all shortly see where we have voted, (you got my vote John!).
Finally, while I think LJ may be correct in his view of the medium term future and its challenges, some of us would say there have been a fair old number of changes and challenges in the LAST ten years. Darke's reaction to those has been to increase membership, increase BALPA deficit, and watch all our Ts and Cs decline steadily along with our remuneration. God only knows where we will be in another decade if CD stays at the helm.
(Tony Blair is always looking for good spin doctors though LJ, maybe you, Chris and Merv could get a position with New Labour!
)