Air Niuguini AT42, engine fire, RTO, overrun
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Air Niuguini AT42, engine fire, RTO, overrun
An Air Niuguini ATR-42 suffered an engine fire on take off from Madang. The take off was aborted but the aircraft overran the runway and ended up in a creek. Three crew injured but alive.
From the report at Aviation Herald, sounds like the right decision was made. Aircraft are replacable, lives aren't.
Accident: Niugini AT42 at Madang on Oct 19th 2013, overran runway on rejected takeoff
From the report at Aviation Herald, sounds like the right decision was made. Aircraft are replacable, lives aren't.
Accident: Niugini AT42 at Madang on Oct 19th 2013, overran runway on rejected takeoff
Not the only Asian overrun yesterday:
Incident: Skyjet B462 at Balesin Island on Oct 19th 2013, overran runway on landing
whats happening there...?
Incident: Skyjet B462 at Balesin Island on Oct 19th 2013, overran runway on landing
whats happening there...?
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I didn't notice we had a thread deviation SVC10. Flap 45 is a config unique to ATR-300 series for use in Emergency..I have tried it on a normal after landing event and reduced stopping distance almost by 40% with full reversers and normal braking.
Rumour had it that there is a cow boy ATR42 cargo operator in PNG.Farnair normally pride themselves with safety and standards but their airplanes are rather old..as is this type(since 1984). There must have been some alarming engine issues in advance of that fire erupting..there is usually some "smoke" before an engine reaches a point where it explodes into a fire such as that witnessed on the brilliant photography on this accident.I suspect it was an accident...in waiting.
Rumour had it that there is a cow boy ATR42 cargo operator in PNG.Farnair normally pride themselves with safety and standards but their airplanes are rather old..as is this type(since 1984). There must have been some alarming engine issues in advance of that fire erupting..there is usually some "smoke" before an engine reaches a point where it explodes into a fire such as that witnessed on the brilliant photography on this accident.I suspect it was an accident...in waiting.
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I meant the discussion of the Balesin accident, which seems to be less severe than this one. Discussion of runway lengths, flap settings etc relevant to this incident is welcome of course.
Am I right in thinking that had the take off been continued, there could have been a far worse result?
Am I right in thinking that had the take off been continued, there could have been a far worse result?
Last edited by Super VC-10; 22nd Oct 2013 at 17:42. Reason: A/c obviously not repairable - water and electronics don't mix, sentence removed.
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Trackdiamond - explain?
Interesting point of view Trackdiamond. Both Farnair and Air Niugini are IOSA audited and both operate into extremly heavily regulated airspace (Europe for Farnair, Australia, Japan and Hong Kong for Air Niugini).
What in your opinion makes them cowboys? I conceed that operating conditions in PNG are challenging but does that make them cowboy's....someone has to service the country.
Your quote about ageing equipment is an absolute non-sence
What in your opinion makes them cowboys? I conceed that operating conditions in PNG are challenging but does that make them cowboy's....someone has to service the country.
Your quote about ageing equipment is an absolute non-sence
Can I just add my two penny worth In ref to Bae146, I flew these In the Eighties and have 4500 Hours on type We used to Operate Into Berne on a regular basis which was only 1200 meters long and added to that an airfield height of nearly 2000 ft we only ever took up 1/2 to 3/4 length of the runway. I was one of the first to take the 300 Into Berne with a max weight landing with a Vref of only 83kts. If my fading memory serves me well we only used half the runway. But you have to have everything going for you. In my opinion they should have done a Go Around.
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SuperVC-10 thanks for your clarification. I agree it was a sensible decision..you don't take any chances with fire and I would rather have a low speed impact than drop out of the sky.
Cockyjester..no need to get cocky and rude..I did not offer you a personal insult.The cowboy thing was just a rumour I heard from an ex ATR driver based in PNG...and I did not at all blame Farnair (I was defending it) nor Air Niugini..I have heard however APNG might have compromised standards..again I emphasise..I HEARD...and this is a rumour site and so assume am entitled to post what rumours were transmitted to me.
You are entitled to your opinion about ATR 300 not being old.Try and get a difference rating with the more advanced ATR versions and see whether your ATR 300 rating will be recognised..my previous -320 wasn't. Do you even fly this type cocky?
Whether topography in PNG , Pago Pago, Nepal or Switzerland for that matter..being a challenge, should not be reason at all for standards to be compromised..if anything they should be higher.
Spell check on your "non-sense" might make more sense out of your rant.
Cockyjester..no need to get cocky and rude..I did not offer you a personal insult.The cowboy thing was just a rumour I heard from an ex ATR driver based in PNG...and I did not at all blame Farnair (I was defending it) nor Air Niugini..I have heard however APNG might have compromised standards..again I emphasise..I HEARD...and this is a rumour site and so assume am entitled to post what rumours were transmitted to me.
You are entitled to your opinion about ATR 300 not being old.Try and get a difference rating with the more advanced ATR versions and see whether your ATR 300 rating will be recognised..my previous -320 wasn't. Do you even fly this type cocky?
Whether topography in PNG , Pago Pago, Nepal or Switzerland for that matter..being a challenge, should not be reason at all for standards to be compromised..if anything they should be higher.
Spell check on your "non-sense" might make more sense out of your rant.
Last edited by Trackdiamond; 22nd Oct 2013 at 18:29.
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BlueVolta,
This (below) as you eluded to, puts a whole new slant on the accident.
On Oct 22nd 2013 the French BEA reported in their weekly bulletin that the aircraft accelerated for takeoff from runway 25 when upon rotation the nose gear did not lift off the runway, the captain, pilot flying, said in post flight interviews the controls felt very heavy in pitch. The captain rejected takeoff, the aircraft overran the end of the runway, went down a bank of about 3 meters, continued for about 100 meters before the right wing impacted the airport perimeter fence, causing the aircraft to turn about 45 degrees, right hand engine and right outboard wing caught fire, the aircraft slid down into a small creek where it came to rest partly submerged. The cockpit voice and flight data recorder were not submerged and were recovered in good condition. The right hand wing separated from the wing and fell into the creek. The investigation is led by the Authorities of Papua New Guinea.
Perhaps a "retrospective" loadsheet would reveal something interesting. Comments on ASN suggests that cargo was being unloaded from the wreck. . . . . . no doubt in an effort to "clarify" the cause
This (below) as you eluded to, puts a whole new slant on the accident.
On Oct 22nd 2013 the French BEA reported in their weekly bulletin that the aircraft accelerated for takeoff from runway 25 when upon rotation the nose gear did not lift off the runway, the captain, pilot flying, said in post flight interviews the controls felt very heavy in pitch. The captain rejected takeoff, the aircraft overran the end of the runway, went down a bank of about 3 meters, continued for about 100 meters before the right wing impacted the airport perimeter fence, causing the aircraft to turn about 45 degrees, right hand engine and right outboard wing caught fire, the aircraft slid down into a small creek where it came to rest partly submerged. The cockpit voice and flight data recorder were not submerged and were recovered in good condition. The right hand wing separated from the wing and fell into the creek. The investigation is led by the Authorities of Papua New Guinea.
Perhaps a "retrospective" loadsheet would reveal something interesting. Comments on ASN suggests that cargo was being unloaded from the wreck. . . . . . no doubt in an effort to "clarify" the cause
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catplaystation
Very interesting indeed! Hope any substandard operations get exposed for the sympathisers in here to be less defensive next time a smokey rumour lands on this forum!
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Hmmm, refusal to lift on take off. Possible causes?
Are we talking CoG too far forward, incorrect flap settings, or something else.
If a moderator would like to retitle the thread that is fine by me.
Are we talking CoG too far forward, incorrect flap settings, or something else.
If a moderator would like to retitle the thread that is fine by me.
Last edited by Super VC-10; 22nd Oct 2013 at 20:54. Reason: typo
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Trackdiamond, I was being neither cocky (save for the tag line), rude or ranting- just asking you to back up your cowboy comment. I may have misread your post to suggest that because the aircraft was old it was an accident waiting to happen.
Many thanks for you spelling advice I must get that spellcheck serviced
Many thanks for you spelling advice I must get that spellcheck serviced
