Thai A330 accident at BKK
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You'll never get the true story from accidents such as this in Asia.
The heir to the Red Bull empire killed a Bangkok policeman driving his Ferrari while high on drink but has just fled justice to Singapore.
Vorayuth Yoovidhya, Red Bull Heir, Hit-And-Run Case Reveals Thailand Injustice
Saving face is the primary objective hence the cover up. Only kids from wealthy or well connected families ever make it to the flight deck in a country such as Thailand.
But counter productive as you can't muzzle the global press.
So does Star Alliance recommend this course of action?
More blame buck passing here
Some poor engineer will get the blame for this heavy landing.
The heir to the Red Bull empire killed a Bangkok policeman driving his Ferrari while high on drink but has just fled justice to Singapore.
Vorayuth Yoovidhya, Red Bull Heir, Hit-And-Run Case Reveals Thailand Injustice
Saving face is the primary objective hence the cover up. Only kids from wealthy or well connected families ever make it to the flight deck in a country such as Thailand.
But counter productive as you can't muzzle the global press.
Officials said there had been a malfunction in the gearbox of the plane, which was carrying 288 passengers and 14 crew members.
Following the incident, workers on a crane blacked out the Thai Airways logo on the tail and body of the aircraft.
Thai Airways official Smud Poom-On said that 'blurring the logo' after an accident was a recommendation from Star Alliance known as the 'crisis communication rule', meant to protect the image of both the airline and other members of Star Alliance.
Following the incident, workers on a crane blacked out the Thai Airways logo on the tail and body of the aircraft.
Thai Airways official Smud Poom-On said that 'blurring the logo' after an accident was a recommendation from Star Alliance known as the 'crisis communication rule', meant to protect the image of both the airline and other members of Star Alliance.
More blame buck passing here
Thai Airways president Sorajak Kasemsuvan said in a statement that the landing gear had malfunctioned.
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I sure hope that they had good reason to evacuate or that they exhausted all alternatives before evacuating everyone via the chutes. Did they have any fire warnings and if so was the fire confirmed by the emergency services?
Personally, I could understand the CC making the decision with those circumstances.
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Does anyone remember a similar instance of an A330 "spontaneously" collapsing after what appears (so far obviously) a fairly routine touchdown ?!
In 2007 an A330 bogie beam broke up during taxiing in Munich caused by internal corrosion.
The damage to the runway in BKK suggest the same (bogie beam failure) happened during touchdown this time.
Munich 2007:
Last edited by A33Zab; 10th Sep 2013 at 17:30.
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Well the fiasco is turning in to a major PR problem for Thai Airways with accusations of pandemonium on the escape and handling of passengers once the aircraft stopped.
Source Bangkok Post.
Injured passengers criticise Thai Airways International accident response | Bangkok Post: news
Wijit Khaoto, another passenger, said the lower end of the emergency slide he used did not reach the runway surface.
This caused difficulty for shorter passengers whose feet could not touch the ground from the end of the slide. Some passengers trapped at the bottom, including himself, were struck in the back by those coming down the slide after them, he said.
"No staff members were there to help. The passengers who jumped on the slide had to turn back to help pull other passengers down," he said.
The THAI president denied allegations by some passengers that cabin crew members left the plane before assisting passengers.
Mr Sorajak said all passengers disembarked using four inflatable emergency slides on the left side of the aircraft.
Under evacuation procedures, one crew member must exit through each slide first to catch following passengers, while the other crew members must remain aboard to direct evacuees.
.
This caused difficulty for shorter passengers whose feet could not touch the ground from the end of the slide. Some passengers trapped at the bottom, including himself, were struck in the back by those coming down the slide after them, he said.
"No staff members were there to help. The passengers who jumped on the slide had to turn back to help pull other passengers down," he said.
The THAI president denied allegations by some passengers that cabin crew members left the plane before assisting passengers.
Mr Sorajak said all passengers disembarked using four inflatable emergency slides on the left side of the aircraft.
Under evacuation procedures, one crew member must exit through each slide first to catch following passengers, while the other crew members must remain aboard to direct evacuees.
.
Injured passengers criticise Thai Airways International accident response | Bangkok Post: news
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Ye Olde Pilot,
TG recruit from the pool of influential families in Thailand.
Your family name is your key to sucess(or not).
TG is as a result far from the most dynamic airline in the Far East.
TG recruit from the pool of influential families in Thailand.
Your family name is your key to sucess(or not).
TG is as a result far from the most dynamic airline in the Far East.
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Red necks
Seems pretty racist.
FYI - in the west generally on rich (er) kids can only fly too, cause normal kids from poor families can afford the cost of flying school.
As such your painting yourself with the same brush. I remember in Europe it was something like 200,000 euro for a CPL.... An impossible about for most kids without a rich daddy.
FYI - in the west generally on rich (er) kids can only fly too, cause normal kids from poor families can afford the cost of flying school.
As such your painting yourself with the same brush. I remember in Europe it was something like 200,000 euro for a CPL.... An impossible about for most kids without a rich daddy.
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Any answer on why on earth that in a crash scene that should be secured for investigation by the relevant body, they would allow the company to stick a crane next to the plane and paint over their logos. Surely you wouldn't let the company anywhere near the scene until the initial investigation is complete.
Could this happen in the US? Would the NTSB allow an airline to paint over it's logo while it's still in the middle of an investigation?
Could this happen in the US? Would the NTSB allow an airline to paint over it's logo while it's still in the middle of an investigation?
It remains to be seen who will conduct the investigation of this incident - if, indeed, anyone........
I have heard aleady that Thai airways themselves will conduct the enquiry - no conflict of interest there of course!!
I have heard aleady that Thai airways themselves will conduct the enquiry - no conflict of interest there of course!!
N4790P
Ye Olde Pilot
Where did your heavy landing come from?
More blame buck passing here Quote:
Thai Airways president Sorajak Kasemsuvan said in a statement that the landing gear had malfunctioned.
Some poor engineer will get the blame for this heavy landing.
Thai Airways president Sorajak Kasemsuvan said in a statement that the landing gear had malfunctioned.
Some poor engineer will get the blame for this heavy landing.
The Reverend
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Not a regular occurrence but bogie beams do fail occasionally, not necessarily due to a heavy landing. I experienced one on a Convair 880 during taxy after pushback at Kai Tak.
Many CC are taught to evacuate in certain circumstances. Here, you have an unusual a/c attitude, sparks (fire), presumably full reverse while going off road which could have thrown debris into the air giving the illusion of smoke and who knows what smells/smoke in the cabin.
Personally, I could understand the CC making the decision with those circumstances.
Personally, I could understand the CC making the decision with those circumstances.
Interesting comments, from the link above. May be of interest to those ppruners who obsessively complain about passengers taking luggage with them when evacuationg an aircraft.
Mr Kosit said passengers were taken from the accident scene to immigration counters, but some of the passengers had fled the aircraft without their passports, causing confusion.
The buses were packed with passengers, including those who were injured and in a state of extreme shock," Mr Panuwat said. "They needed officials to take care of them and provide them with first aid, but there was no one.
The buses were packed with passengers, including those who were injured and in a state of extreme shock," Mr Panuwat said. "They needed officials to take care of them and provide them with first aid, but there was no one.
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Only if comms with the cockpit cannot be established or no pilot PAs are forthcoming...
Do you know the Thai policy on evacuation?
In my previous company the CC could initiate an evacuation themselves in cases of obvious fire, smoke, aircraft in bits or resting at an extreme attitude.
Last edited by Al Murdoch; 10th Sep 2013 at 07:32.
Bloggs has it. As it appears now, this would not be a case for Cc-initiated evac. Alert station, monitor outside and report anomalies to flight crew, await instruction. Of course, the pax may well have had other ideas and we may find out if that had any influence over the situation. Many crew agree, even if it is not warranted, once an evac has been started it's probably more harmful to try stop it (ie get trampled to death by the stampede to the door...)
if there was a fire, it would still need to be major and self sustaining for the crew not to wait for flight crew go. External fires as we train for, are generally safer to stay inside until you know what you are actually dealing with (eg tailpipe fire scary to pax but you wouldnt evac for it unless it lit up something else after shutdown)
Thai, like most operators, would likely base SOPs on Airbus procedure which is wait for flight crew instruction unless situation as described... no comms from Capt and immediate threat to life
unusual aircraft attitude, with intact hull, is not in itself a reason for CC to initiate evac if the pilots are still up
gmw (four airlines, 2 A330 operators)
if there was a fire, it would still need to be major and self sustaining for the crew not to wait for flight crew go. External fires as we train for, are generally safer to stay inside until you know what you are actually dealing with (eg tailpipe fire scary to pax but you wouldnt evac for it unless it lit up something else after shutdown)
Thai, like most operators, would likely base SOPs on Airbus procedure which is wait for flight crew instruction unless situation as described... no comms from Capt and immediate threat to life
unusual aircraft attitude, with intact hull, is not in itself a reason for CC to initiate evac if the pilots are still up
gmw (four airlines, 2 A330 operators)
Last edited by givemewings; 10th Sep 2013 at 07:46.
Originally Posted by Al Murdoch
Stop guessing!
Do you know the Thai policy on evacuation?
In my previous company the CC could initiate an evacuation themselves in cases of obvious fire, smoke, aircraft in bits or resting at an extreme attitude.
Do you know the Thai policy on evacuation?
In my previous company the CC could initiate an evacuation themselves in cases of obvious fire, smoke, aircraft in bits or resting at an extreme attitude.
2. Silly previous company.
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Some backtracking on that claim.
BANGKOK: -- Star Alliance network has denied a claim by Thai International Airways, one of its members, that it has a policy of obscuring the logo of a plane in case of accident, CNN reported Tuesday.
A THAI flight from Guangzhou in China skidded off the runway at Suvarnabhumi Airport as it attempted to land on Sunday night, slightly injuring 13 passengers.
After the accident, CNN published a photo showing workers on a crane painting over the Thai Airways logo on the tail and body of the aircraft in black.
The Guardian online quoted in its online version a Thai Airways official, Smud Poomon, who said blurring the logo after an accident was a recommendation from Star Alliance known as the "crisis communication rule", meant to protect the image of both the airline and other members of Star Alliance.
The Star Alliance spokesman for the airline group, Markus Ruediger, told CNN, "The Star Alliance crisis communications policy does not state that logos are to be covered," in the event of an accident.
Thai Airways later issued a statement "clarifying" its policy.
"Though Thai generally practices the deidentifying of an aircraft after an incident ... the company also clarifies that this is not a Star Alliance policy," CNN reported.
A THAI flight from Guangzhou in China skidded off the runway at Suvarnabhumi Airport as it attempted to land on Sunday night, slightly injuring 13 passengers.
After the accident, CNN published a photo showing workers on a crane painting over the Thai Airways logo on the tail and body of the aircraft in black.
The Guardian online quoted in its online version a Thai Airways official, Smud Poomon, who said blurring the logo after an accident was a recommendation from Star Alliance known as the "crisis communication rule", meant to protect the image of both the airline and other members of Star Alliance.
The Star Alliance spokesman for the airline group, Markus Ruediger, told CNN, "The Star Alliance crisis communications policy does not state that logos are to be covered," in the event of an accident.
Thai Airways later issued a statement "clarifying" its policy.
"Though Thai generally practices the deidentifying of an aircraft after an incident ... the company also clarifies that this is not a Star Alliance policy," CNN reported.
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In 2007 an A330 boogie beam broke up during taxiing in Munich caused by internal corrosion.
The damage to the runway in BKK suggest the same (boogie beam failure) happened during touchdown this time.
The damage to the runway in BKK suggest the same (boogie beam failure) happened during touchdown this time.
However, according to the AD you are fully right...
This condition, if not detected and corrected, could lead to a runway excursion event
Last edited by Volume; 10th Sep 2013 at 14:35. Reason: corrected date...
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I'm afraid we may have some American slang creeping in here. As far as I understand Airbus only talk about bogie beams.
Aviation Today :: EASA Issues Emergency AD for A330-300, A 340-200/-300 MLG Bogie Beam
A bogie is a set of couple wheels and originated in the UK during the early days of loco construction.
Check it out in the Oxford or Cambridge dictionaries.
Boogie is
Meanwhile the aircraft that has caused so many red faces at Thai HQ just a click down the road from the accident will be moved tonight.
Source Bangkok Post
Aviation Today :: EASA Issues Emergency AD for A330-300, A 340-200/-300 MLG Bogie Beam
A bogie is a set of couple wheels and originated in the UK during the early days of loco construction.
Check it out in the Oxford or Cambridge dictionaries.
Boogie is
a style of blues played on the piano with a strong, fast beat:
The stricken Thai Airways International aircraft causing ongoing delays at Suvarnabhumi airport will be hauled off the crash site for repairs by midnight on Tuesday, THAI president Sorajak Kasemsuvan has announced.
The damaged Thai Airways International Airbus is stranded off the eastern runway of Suvarnabhumi airport after crash-landing on Sunday night. THAI said it should be removed from the crash site on Tuesday night.
THAI officials will begin the operation to move the Airbus A330-300 aircraft from the eastern runway, which is still partly closed, tonight.
Two trailers will be used to haul it to a temporary parking space in a hangar at Suvarnabhumi airport and the job could be completed by midnight, Mr Sorajak said.
Fllight TG679 from Guangzhou, China, veered off the eastern runway after touching down at 11.30pm on Sunday night. A preliminary investigation blamed malfunctioning landing gear for causing the accident, which injured 14 of 287 passengers on board.
The Department of Civil Aviation will send the plane's black box to the aircraft manufacturer to find out more about the cause of the crash. Department chief Woradet Harnprasert said the agency has not yet decided whether to send it to an Airbus office in Singapore or the company's headquarters in Toulouse, France.
Airport general manager Rawewan Netrakavesna said the damaged surface has been completely repaired so the runway will be reopened on Wednesday morning as planned.
Suvarnabhumi services about 900 inbound and outbound flights a day. Flights out of the airport are currently running about 30 minutes late, while planes coming into the airport are around 15 minutes behind the schedule as a result of the incident.
The damaged Thai Airways International Airbus is stranded off the eastern runway of Suvarnabhumi airport after crash-landing on Sunday night. THAI said it should be removed from the crash site on Tuesday night.
THAI officials will begin the operation to move the Airbus A330-300 aircraft from the eastern runway, which is still partly closed, tonight.
Two trailers will be used to haul it to a temporary parking space in a hangar at Suvarnabhumi airport and the job could be completed by midnight, Mr Sorajak said.
Fllight TG679 from Guangzhou, China, veered off the eastern runway after touching down at 11.30pm on Sunday night. A preliminary investigation blamed malfunctioning landing gear for causing the accident, which injured 14 of 287 passengers on board.
The Department of Civil Aviation will send the plane's black box to the aircraft manufacturer to find out more about the cause of the crash. Department chief Woradet Harnprasert said the agency has not yet decided whether to send it to an Airbus office in Singapore or the company's headquarters in Toulouse, France.
Airport general manager Rawewan Netrakavesna said the damaged surface has been completely repaired so the runway will be reopened on Wednesday morning as planned.
Suvarnabhumi services about 900 inbound and outbound flights a day. Flights out of the airport are currently running about 30 minutes late, while planes coming into the airport are around 15 minutes behind the schedule as a result of the incident.
Last edited by Ye Olde Pilot; 10th Sep 2013 at 15:39.