Gulf Air: Qatar/Oman refuse new funds & New CEO
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I am told that there was a meeting called by James Hogan for all the managers.
Icarus, if you wre there, tell us about it first hand.
Do you think this guy can pull it off for the company,or is just one more chair warmer?
Icarus, if you wre there, tell us about it first hand.
Do you think this guy can pull it off for the company,or is just one more chair warmer?
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Yes I was there.
And I did think about posting almost immediately afterwards; however, as I was still quite upset/angry and disappointed I left it.
Don't hold your breath! But I will put a somewhat 'matter of fact' and 'unemotional' post about it either later today or over the weekend (FRI/SAT here!).
And I did think about posting almost immediately afterwards; however, as I was still quite upset/angry and disappointed I left it.
Don't hold your breath! But I will put a somewhat 'matter of fact' and 'unemotional' post about it either later today or over the weekend (FRI/SAT here!).
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The Gulf newspapers mentioned that GF might lease out 3 of the 5 A340's, bring back the 2 A330's that were leased out, and then lease/buy 5 A320's and one A330 (pending cash injection from the owner states). I remember talking to someone from GF who said that one of the things that caused GF to go downhill was too many A320's when they didn't really nead that many. That was when they had only 12. If they do bring in the additional A320's, that would mean having a total of 17. It is going to be interesting.
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One of GFs most financially successful periods was when it side-lined the TriStar, which had become expensive to run, and went full out on the B767.
One wonders why they are now so keen on the Airbus? Cheap to buy and even more expensive to run.
Hope it is nothing to do with the large brown envelopes that Airbus are famous for handing out?
One wonders why they are now so keen on the Airbus? Cheap to buy and even more expensive to run.
Hope it is nothing to do with the large brown envelopes that Airbus are famous for handing out?
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OK let’s see what I can remember! 
Essentials of the meeting to GF management hosted by our new Chief Executive, SH&E and Senior VP’s.
From what I can recall the meeting (presentation) was titled:
The Future of Gulf Air: The Road to Profitability.
The new Chief briefed us on his background and the need to change, adopt a mission statement and to accept that as managers we have to embrace certain values. (Integrity, respect, be fair, transparent, be more proactive and take on some social responsibility).
The fact that we have around two weeks to go before there is an extraordinary general meeting (of the board) , the main issue being the re-finance package that is required.
He walked us through the current state of affairs and how bad the financial situation is and that recapitalisation is required immediately and that GF has to prove to the board that it is worth continued investment.
SH&E then took over to brief on matters of their direct involvement.
The mater of a restructured organisation was touch upon although that will not be released for perhaps another 10 days or so. Changes are required in the network and fleet so that we can operate where/when is most commercially beneficial and with lower costs. Problems with our primary engineering contractor are going to be addressed, changes to business processes etc. etc. etc.
The concentration on BAH as a primary hub and what it is going to take to make that work. New aircraft (5 A320 one A330 plus the 2 back from TAM); assumptions that all the A340 fleet will be disposed of by a wet lease agreement.
Cost reductions of almost 18M BHD are targeted and revenue opportunities of BD20M+ identified (does this mean net on the balance sheet BD39M+ I do not know, I do not work for finance!).
Staff at HDQ to be reduced by 18% (I was wrong in my previous post obviously!) but currently no reduction in cabin/tech crew; that would be subject to what AIMS decides (assuming the people that are going to use are competent ,which I doubt as this system will probably not meet our needs and the same people who chose it will administer it so I can’t see it being much good myself!).
The we moved onto a spell with HR. Very boring so I am not going to waste my time with it here! (Boring subject, not the chap who gave it I hasten to add).
SH&E then showed us the top level pages of an MS Project plan (wooooooo very swish! I think not) which indicated we have to get our acts together to be ready by 1 October implementation.
The rest was mediocre. KPI plans and a need for us to cascade this information to our staff. I am Saturday night over my usual monthly dinner outing with them (boys if you are reading this it is not my turn to pay this time!! And no I will not put on my entertainment budget! Times are hard you know!).
Then a few closing words from the new boy telling us what was expected of us.
Overall, nothing unknown, nothing exciting, but nothing too bad either, although the overused ‘move forward’ phrase (which makes me cringe every time I hear it as it is so false. Uugghhh!!) seemed to be ‘en vogue’ with the new Chief (please find something a little more “English” or “Australian” for the next time James these American phrases are just like Americans, full of promise but short on delivery!).
Why was I upset, disappointed and angry?
Because as with every presentation, the closing move is to open the floor.
Oh boy, here we go!
Will we get an intelligent question? HA HA HA!
After all we had been told, six very silly people opened their mouths to prove to the whole world just how silly they really are!
Six or seven different questions, one underlying statement!
“What’s in it for me! What’s in it for my staff! What are you going to do for me! “
Well F*****G HELL! Boys shut the **** up and ask what you can do for GF, what you can do for your staff; otherwise just p*** off and let those who really care get on with it. This is our last chance you d*ck-heads!
That is why was I upset, disappointed and angry and I really wanted to say all of that! (but far more diplomatically of course; trouble is, do that and no-one really gets the underlying message!)
Mr Hogan I beg you; if you can only change one thing in this company then it MUST BE this attitude.
I am so sorry you had to listen to this **** on your first introduction to ‘the management’. I am surprised you are still here. The fact that you are, must mean you are serious.
Good.
I believe we now have a chance.
Essentials of the meeting to GF management hosted by our new Chief Executive, SH&E and Senior VP’s.
From what I can recall the meeting (presentation) was titled:
The Future of Gulf Air: The Road to Profitability.
The new Chief briefed us on his background and the need to change, adopt a mission statement and to accept that as managers we have to embrace certain values. (Integrity, respect, be fair, transparent, be more proactive and take on some social responsibility).
The fact that we have around two weeks to go before there is an extraordinary general meeting (of the board) , the main issue being the re-finance package that is required.
He walked us through the current state of affairs and how bad the financial situation is and that recapitalisation is required immediately and that GF has to prove to the board that it is worth continued investment.
SH&E then took over to brief on matters of their direct involvement.
The mater of a restructured organisation was touch upon although that will not be released for perhaps another 10 days or so. Changes are required in the network and fleet so that we can operate where/when is most commercially beneficial and with lower costs. Problems with our primary engineering contractor are going to be addressed, changes to business processes etc. etc. etc.
The concentration on BAH as a primary hub and what it is going to take to make that work. New aircraft (5 A320 one A330 plus the 2 back from TAM); assumptions that all the A340 fleet will be disposed of by a wet lease agreement.
Cost reductions of almost 18M BHD are targeted and revenue opportunities of BD20M+ identified (does this mean net on the balance sheet BD39M+ I do not know, I do not work for finance!).
Staff at HDQ to be reduced by 18% (I was wrong in my previous post obviously!) but currently no reduction in cabin/tech crew; that would be subject to what AIMS decides (assuming the people that are going to use are competent ,which I doubt as this system will probably not meet our needs and the same people who chose it will administer it so I can’t see it being much good myself!).
The we moved onto a spell with HR. Very boring so I am not going to waste my time with it here! (Boring subject, not the chap who gave it I hasten to add).
SH&E then showed us the top level pages of an MS Project plan (wooooooo very swish! I think not) which indicated we have to get our acts together to be ready by 1 October implementation.
The rest was mediocre. KPI plans and a need for us to cascade this information to our staff. I am Saturday night over my usual monthly dinner outing with them (boys if you are reading this it is not my turn to pay this time!! And no I will not put on my entertainment budget! Times are hard you know!).
Then a few closing words from the new boy telling us what was expected of us.
Overall, nothing unknown, nothing exciting, but nothing too bad either, although the overused ‘move forward’ phrase (which makes me cringe every time I hear it as it is so false. Uugghhh!!) seemed to be ‘en vogue’ with the new Chief (please find something a little more “English” or “Australian” for the next time James these American phrases are just like Americans, full of promise but short on delivery!).
Why was I upset, disappointed and angry?
Because as with every presentation, the closing move is to open the floor.
Oh boy, here we go!
Will we get an intelligent question? HA HA HA!
After all we had been told, six very silly people opened their mouths to prove to the whole world just how silly they really are!
Six or seven different questions, one underlying statement!
“What’s in it for me! What’s in it for my staff! What are you going to do for me! “
Well F*****G HELL! Boys shut the **** up and ask what you can do for GF, what you can do for your staff; otherwise just p*** off and let those who really care get on with it. This is our last chance you d*ck-heads!
That is why was I upset, disappointed and angry and I really wanted to say all of that! (but far more diplomatically of course; trouble is, do that and no-one really gets the underlying message!)
Mr Hogan I beg you; if you can only change one thing in this company then it MUST BE this attitude.
I am so sorry you had to listen to this **** on your first introduction to ‘the management’. I am surprised you are still here. The fact that you are, must mean you are serious.
Good.
I believe we now have a chance.
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The "brown paper bag" is how Airbus always pawns off their plastic french airplanes...in spite of their beautiful long wings.just like BAE and their commuter planes in the states...(now littering the Mojave desert)....
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Boilermaker,
We may have had 12 at one time but 1 was written off in AUH (tell me about it, my g/f was on the overwing!) and the other was driven into into waters North of BAH 2 years ago almost; so that's 10 left. 5 to come will mean a fleet of 15 320's!
The problem was not too many 320's, it was (probably) too much bad scheduling of the 320 (as with the others!). This appears to be being corrected in a number of ways, SH&E for one, and the departure of some of the planning staff, and the those remaining behaving themselves for once (probably due to pressure from SH&E to get it right).
We may have had 12 at one time but 1 was written off in AUH (tell me about it, my g/f was on the overwing!) and the other was driven into into waters North of BAH 2 years ago almost; so that's 10 left. 5 to come will mean a fleet of 15 320's!
The problem was not too many 320's, it was (probably) too much bad scheduling of the 320 (as with the others!). This appears to be being corrected in a number of ways, SH&E for one, and the departure of some of the planning staff, and the those remaining behaving themselves for once (probably due to pressure from SH&E to get it right).
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Icarus, absolutely right. If GF can sort out the schedules/utilisation then they will have a fighting chance.
Why are A340s used BAH-DOH-BAH for instance and A320s used on BAH-ROM. That sort of thing is not particularly efficient.
Why are A340s used BAH-DOH-BAH for instance and A320s used on BAH-ROM. That sort of thing is not particularly efficient.
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That's easy!
Mostly to get aircraft in position for long haul flights and use what may have been a positioning sector as a commercial flight.
That's what happens when your traffic rights are limited to only one of the four states but you need the aircrfat in another!
But then again why not operate a 'complexed flight' or 'funnel flight'; why? Systems have huge difficulties handling it and passengers soon catch on! QF spent hundreds of man years programming their systems to meet the demands of their marketing department to fulfil a SIN hub operation many years ago. Didnt last, threw it away after a matter of months, loads-a-money down the drain.
(SH&E please take note!).
320 on FCO (which is closed now) was sensible in the fact it matched the demand, however, lack of IFE (in flight entertainment) and a little short on seat pitch made it a loser, 321 a better option but we dont have any!
Mostly to get aircraft in position for long haul flights and use what may have been a positioning sector as a commercial flight.
That's what happens when your traffic rights are limited to only one of the four states but you need the aircrfat in another!
But then again why not operate a 'complexed flight' or 'funnel flight'; why? Systems have huge difficulties handling it and passengers soon catch on! QF spent hundreds of man years programming their systems to meet the demands of their marketing department to fulfil a SIN hub operation many years ago. Didnt last, threw it away after a matter of months, loads-a-money down the drain.
(SH&E please take note!). 320 on FCO (which is closed now) was sensible in the fact it matched the demand, however, lack of IFE (in flight entertainment) and a little short on seat pitch made it a loser, 321 a better option but we dont have any!
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Icarus,
Are you sure GF went to FCO with a 320? I was under the impression they used the 330's (even 767)? I think it is very unfair of you to put all the blame the scheduling dept. There are tons of other problems with GF, and yield is one of the most important reasons why. Because of competition from other airlines in the region, yield has been taking a downward spiral and that has not helped. As a result, a lot of the routes have a break-even S.F. of over 100%. The scheduling dept. can fill up the plane, and it will still lose money. Anyway, I just got off the phone with someone close to the sales dept. Don't expect SH&E to have a better schedule this winter. Let us face it, coming from the U.S. does not mean you know more about the markets than the people who have been working and monitoring the trends at GF for years. For example, I was told that SH&E was planning a daily trip from BAH to AMM, BEY and DAM in Winter!! A monkey would know there is no such demand to warrant this amount of frequencies (summer yes, but not winter). Going to NBO with an A320 is an interesting one (I think there is a payload restriction with that, so it will never make it). Same issue with going to MNL with a 763 (payload restrictions). Another example that was given to me was bilaterals. In one case, SH&E are planning 19 flights to CAI, when bilaterals say GF are allowed 13 only! So, don't put to much hope in SH&E yet. Oh by the way, expect more intra-gulf frequencies with wide-bodies aircraft too (for example. BAH-DMM-BAH in A330!!). Good luck guys.
Are you sure GF went to FCO with a 320? I was under the impression they used the 330's (even 767)? I think it is very unfair of you to put all the blame the scheduling dept. There are tons of other problems with GF, and yield is one of the most important reasons why. Because of competition from other airlines in the region, yield has been taking a downward spiral and that has not helped. As a result, a lot of the routes have a break-even S.F. of over 100%. The scheduling dept. can fill up the plane, and it will still lose money. Anyway, I just got off the phone with someone close to the sales dept. Don't expect SH&E to have a better schedule this winter. Let us face it, coming from the U.S. does not mean you know more about the markets than the people who have been working and monitoring the trends at GF for years. For example, I was told that SH&E was planning a daily trip from BAH to AMM, BEY and DAM in Winter!! A monkey would know there is no such demand to warrant this amount of frequencies (summer yes, but not winter). Going to NBO with an A320 is an interesting one (I think there is a payload restriction with that, so it will never make it). Same issue with going to MNL with a 763 (payload restrictions). Another example that was given to me was bilaterals. In one case, SH&E are planning 19 flights to CAI, when bilaterals say GF are allowed 13 only! So, don't put to much hope in SH&E yet. Oh by the way, expect more intra-gulf frequencies with wide-bodies aircraft too (for example. BAH-DMM-BAH in A330!!). Good luck guys.
Last edited by boiler; 18th May 2002 at 03:18.
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Icarus, James Hogan was at bmi for a while and a lot of folks disliked his business school ways of changing the business. Folks though, will always find things to moan about and ignore the possibility of anyone being able to drive a new course. I liked a lot of what JH did at bmi. At least he was open and honest, and followed his promises through as best he could in the circumstances. Many difficult pilot issues were honoured in a company that does its best to **** its pilots off. I wish you all well in the Gulf.
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Icarus
Thanks for the postings. They were unbiased and informative. Please keep it up.
Boilermaker.
Yes, GFA did operate to Rome on the 320, not too long ago. And don’t count on your friend in the sales department to tell the future of the GFA schedules – they do not know if the 340s are being leased out next month, and what airplane is going to replace them. At the best, they can plan for the next week.
And everybody, is there any confirmation on the salary of JH? I'm just inquisitive.
Thanks for the postings. They were unbiased and informative. Please keep it up.
Boilermaker.
Yes, GFA did operate to Rome on the 320, not too long ago. And don’t count on your friend in the sales department to tell the future of the GFA schedules – they do not know if the 340s are being leased out next month, and what airplane is going to replace them. At the best, they can plan for the next week.
And everybody, is there any confirmation on the salary of JH? I'm just inquisitive.
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Icarus
GF's problems have always been management related. As a self proclaimed manager you talk about the 320 on the FCO route. The route was flown by 330s and 767s. First management mistake - know your facts! The 320 would be hard pushed to make it fuelwise. Second management mistake - know your aeroplane. Third management mistake - spend more time managing and less time pontificating on the pages of PPrune.
GF's problems have always been management related. As a self proclaimed manager you talk about the 320 on the FCO route. The route was flown by 330s and 767s. First management mistake - know your facts! The 320 would be hard pushed to make it fuelwise. Second management mistake - know your aeroplane. Third management mistake - spend more time managing and less time pontificating on the pages of PPrune.
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I do not think there is any reason to become rude here!
1) A320 did fly FCO for GF!
2)A320 has the range to fly all the way to Rome!
So maybe you should get some facts straight before you start attacking people!
1) A320 did fly FCO for GF!
2)A320 has the range to fly all the way to Rome!
So maybe you should get some facts straight before you start attacking people!
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Propellor,
The sales dept. recently had a meeting with SH&E in which the schedule was handed to them for comments. The examples I quoted had nothing to do with the A340 and so are perfectly valid.
The sales dept. recently had a meeting with SH&E in which the schedule was handed to them for comments. The examples I quoted had nothing to do with the A340 and so are perfectly valid.
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I believe 320s started to go to FCO about 3 years ago.
They also did Athens. I seem to remember a lot of pax complaints about the lack of IFE on the aircraft. This was rectified with a drop-down-LCD mod shortly after.
I don't think GF A330s have ever been seen at FCO.
Flybynite, I think the thread would be better served if in future you engaged brain before keyboard. Thanks!
They also did Athens. I seem to remember a lot of pax complaints about the lack of IFE on the aircraft. This was rectified with a drop-down-LCD mod shortly after.
I don't think GF A330s have ever been seen at FCO.
Flybynite, I think the thread would be better served if in future you engaged brain before keyboard. Thanks!
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Oh boy, a quandry!
By replying to FBN am I 'rising to it' or 'lowering myself to his/her demeanour'? Maybe it's time for a poll on JB before I say anything!
Oh to hell with it!
FlyBy Nite:
1. GF's problems have always been management related.
True. I wish I was more senior than I am in the management team, maybe then I could either accept the responsibility your talk about or do something more about it.
2. As a self proclaimed manager you talk about the 320 on the FCO route. The route was flown by 330s and 767s.
Again true. It began with B767 paired with ZRH. About 3-4 years ago after ZRH closed an A320 operated for a matter of months, not even a full season.
3. First management mistake - know your facts!
I believe I do. In my area of specialisation you would be hard pushed to find anyone better, sorry!
4. The 320 would be hard pushed to make it fuelwise.
Rubbish. You just operate with a reduced payload capacity! Hence making it uneconomical, the usual GF short-sightedness I agree.
5. Second management mistake - know your aeroplane.
I do. But not from a technical point of view as not a pilot. But I know what it can/cannot carry under prevailing circumstances. Shame I do not work in capacity planning, we might do better if I did!
6. Third management mistake - spend more time managing and less time pontificating on the pages of PPrune.
Maybe I do sometimes, but I believe most of my posts contribute to the threads in a positive manner. You are entitled to your opinion of course.
Most of my posts are also made in my spare time and not during work hours. Are you saying I do not have the freedom to post here in my own time and I should commit myself to my work 24 hours a day? I dont think 100+ posts over 6-7 years is a lot of time on PPRUNE.
And finally, not that you would be aware so it's not your fault, as an agnostic, it is in fact impossible for me to pontificate!
By replying to FBN am I 'rising to it' or 'lowering myself to his/her demeanour'? Maybe it's time for a poll on JB before I say anything!
Oh to hell with it!
FlyBy Nite:
1. GF's problems have always been management related.
True. I wish I was more senior than I am in the management team, maybe then I could either accept the responsibility your talk about or do something more about it.
2. As a self proclaimed manager you talk about the 320 on the FCO route. The route was flown by 330s and 767s.
Again true. It began with B767 paired with ZRH. About 3-4 years ago after ZRH closed an A320 operated for a matter of months, not even a full season.
3. First management mistake - know your facts!
I believe I do. In my area of specialisation you would be hard pushed to find anyone better, sorry!
4. The 320 would be hard pushed to make it fuelwise.
Rubbish. You just operate with a reduced payload capacity! Hence making it uneconomical, the usual GF short-sightedness I agree.
5. Second management mistake - know your aeroplane.
I do. But not from a technical point of view as not a pilot. But I know what it can/cannot carry under prevailing circumstances. Shame I do not work in capacity planning, we might do better if I did!
6. Third management mistake - spend more time managing and less time pontificating on the pages of PPrune.
Maybe I do sometimes, but I believe most of my posts contribute to the threads in a positive manner. You are entitled to your opinion of course.
Most of my posts are also made in my spare time and not during work hours. Are you saying I do not have the freedom to post here in my own time and I should commit myself to my work 24 hours a day? I dont think 100+ posts over 6-7 years is a lot of time on PPRUNE.
And finally, not that you would be aware so it's not your fault, as an agnostic, it is in fact impossible for me to pontificate!
Last edited by Icarus; 18th May 2002 at 06:19.