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Standard of RT in USA

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Standard of RT in USA

Old 19th Jul 2013, 01:10
  #221 (permalink)  
 
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This thread is much to do about nothing....except perhaps for the PC simulator folks.
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Old 19th Jul 2013, 01:25
  #222 (permalink)  
 
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No it is not

Standardised RT stops crashes.

Saying to, too, two is an accident in waiting.

This is why we NEVER use the words take off, until actually cleared take off.

It may same anal, ask Asiania why standards are required............oops
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Old 19th Jul 2013, 09:06
  #223 (permalink)  
 
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This thread is much to do about nothing
I think it is over stated since no one else has had a problem either.
The phrase "sets low standards and still fails to achieve them" springs to mind.

Surely if numerous fellow professionals say there is a problem (and not just "them pesky foreigners") then maybe there is, in fact, a problem.
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Old 19th Jul 2013, 09:24
  #224 (permalink)  
 
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Having been retired awhile I'm not conversant with current procedures. Hiowever, when I was working my Local Competency Examiner would listen to tapes of my R/T and telephone technique at regular intervals and bring to my attention and transgressions. Does this happen in the USA?
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Old 19th Jul 2013, 10:53
  #225 (permalink)  
 
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Usually an atc or an atis will provide you with the transition level. Anyway an atc will not clear you for an altitude in feet above the transition altitude. So you should interpret this instruction as to descend to flight level 80
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Old 19th Jul 2013, 17:53
  #226 (permalink)  
 
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HD wrote:
when I was working my Local Competency Examiner would listen to tapes of my R/T and telephone technique at regular intervals and bring to my attention and transgressions. Does this happen in the USA?
Don't know about the USA but it happens in Canada, every 6 months.

Last edited by cossack; 19th Jul 2013 at 17:55.
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Old 20th Jul 2013, 01:05
  #227 (permalink)  
 
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Descend to FL 80 is the only term I have heard. Descend to 80 has never happened in my 30 year career. Just leave everything as it is because it works just fine. Don't fix a system that isn't broke.
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Old 20th Jul 2013, 05:07
  #228 (permalink)  
 
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The topic is about US Airspace where transition level is FL180. I highly doubt it you heard US ATC saying "FL80 or 080" or any other flight level below 18000 feet.
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Old 20th Jul 2013, 06:17
  #229 (permalink)  
 
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would have known exactly what to do and which frequency to call.
Uplinker et al,

"call ground .X" is listed in the FAA documentation/AIP/AIM as meaning "call ground 121.X", if the ground frequency is not in the 121. range, the full frequency will be given.

There are a number of minor differences with US v. ICAO, all notified to ICAO, but nothing like the number of differences notified by Australia.

"next available" is usually pretty obvious, as to whether it is left or right, in all my years flying in and out of the US, I do not recall any doubts.

As far as I am concerned, European countries that conduct ATC conversation part in English and part in the local language are a far greater threat to safe operations, than the ATC English in the US.

Last edited by LeadSled; 20th Jul 2013 at 06:18.
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Old 20th Jul 2013, 07:53
  #230 (permalink)  
 
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Just leave everything as it is because it works just fine. Don't fix a system that isn't broke.
But your fellow pilots are saying there is a problem, and that it can be fixed and improved.

I am shocked that you have no interest in becoming a better pilot.
You must be perfect!

In my experience arrogance and overconfidence are the most dangerous attributes in a pilot .
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Old 20th Jul 2013, 09:03
  #231 (permalink)  
 
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Speaking as a paying passenger, I'm rather shocked to see twelve pages of rather churlish handbag-swinging on the subject of whether it's ok for US pilots & controllers to use their own 'relaxed' version of aviation english. The bottom line is you only exist to ferry me and my kin (or my latest ebay order) from a to b, and I want that done in the safest possible way. If my safety is being compromised because half of you are insisting on using non-standard terms then that's not acceptable. Standards exist everywhere and they are there for a reason - so everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet and everyone understands what's going on.

Arrogantly insisting on using local (US) slang that doesn't adhere to ICAO standards is tantamount to deliberately making an extra hole in the 'swiss cheese'. That is completely unacceptable.
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Old 20th Jul 2013, 10:40
  #232 (permalink)  
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Is it not (in Europe):

Descend Flight Level 280 (note no "to")
Descend to altitude 8000 feet
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Old 20th Jul 2013, 11:45
  #233 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by anengineer View Post
Speaking as a paying passenger, I'm rather shocked to see twelve pages of rather churlish handbag-swinging on the subject of whether it's ok for US pilots & controllers to use their own 'relaxed' version of aviation english.
"I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!"
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Old 20th Jul 2013, 13:33
  #234 (permalink)  
 
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fmgc:

Is it not (in Europe):

Descend Flight Level 280 (note no "to")
Descend to altitude 8000 feet
The way they used to do it when I was flying in the Wild West, "Descend and maintain flight level two eight zero."
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Old 21st Jul 2013, 12:23
  #235 (permalink)  
 
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I don't know why this issue would have come up in the Asiana thread, that crash had nothing to do with ATC terminology.
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Old 21st Jul 2013, 15:08
  #236 (permalink)  
 
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It's frustration about U.S. English. It's been an issue for 237 yrs and counting.
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Old 21st Jul 2013, 17:46
  #237 (permalink)  
 
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All y'all Euros need to chill, 'namsayin?

Now tell ya what... Speedbird Two Sixty Spandex, turn left to North, climb it like ya stole it up to Two Three Oh, and call the Center on twenny-eight forty two. He'll have higher for ya. Have a good one now.

Seriously, Mateys... it ain't that hard. Just as you all need to make an adjustment entering US airspace, so do we when we come paying y'all a visit. Eurocontrol sounds pretty dang foreign to us as well (and not very "standard" at times.) The important part is keeping it all in perspective... if we're gonna argue about syllables and decimals, we've got major issues.... nobody here is better than anyone else... group hug... kumbaya!

Last edited by aa73; 21st Jul 2013 at 17:51. Reason: I didn't use standard editology
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Old 21st Jul 2013, 18:23
  #238 (permalink)  
 
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A major issue for European pilots is that the majority does not have English as their native language.

American English, especially with strong accents, can be difficult to understand over bad VHF because it differs a lot in some regards to what most Europeans learned in school.

Likewise, Europeans will always have some form of accents either weak or strong. I feel it is up to the Americans to accommodate this when European traffic enters the US. Lead by example.

In reverse, I find it highly annoying that Eurocontrol still allows non-English communications. While most Europeans will get the hang of this, for American pilots it must be terrible.

In general, I am of the opinion that the "hosting" party should do their best to accommodate the "visiting" traffic.
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Old 22nd Jul 2013, 16:19
  #239 (permalink)  
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American English, especially with strong accents, can be difficult to
understand over bad VHF because it differs a lot in some regards to what most
Europeans learned in school.
root --

Every tried to fly in Scotland?
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Old 27th Jul 2013, 16:40
  #240 (permalink)  
 
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In general , i am of the opinion that English should not be used as a so called common language for ATC exchange, as it creates -and will always creates- a distortion between those who get it as a native language and....the majority represented by rest of the world!. A common LEARNED language like Esperanto will put all actors at the same level of humbleness ...not sure that this last word is understood by native speakers!
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