Passengers on jumbo terror flight to sue BA
Union Goon
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Neutral I was directly attacked by 2 seperate people, I will always reserve the right to defend myself and rebut silly statements.
Conan the barber clipped 4 seperate passages out of 700 or so posts that I have put on PPrune since fall of 97 without so much as a hint of where they came from so that they were not only out of context, there was no context what so ever.
I would never have brought up the subject, it was brought up for me, I won't hesitate to attempt to win any arguement, and I am certainly not going to just walk away when I know I am right.
What suprises me is that none of the moderators picked up on the threads and simply pruned them, especially the personal attacks, as I would have or would have been done back in the AVSIG days...
Cheers
Wino
Conan the barber clipped 4 seperate passages out of 700 or so posts that I have put on PPrune since fall of 97 without so much as a hint of where they came from so that they were not only out of context, there was no context what so ever.
I would never have brought up the subject, it was brought up for me, I won't hesitate to attempt to win any arguement, and I am certainly not going to just walk away when I know I am right.
What suprises me is that none of the moderators picked up on the threads and simply pruned them, especially the personal attacks, as I would have or would have been done back in the AVSIG days...
Cheers
Wino
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Wino, as demonstrated above you know where the quotes comes from.
I suspect that you are one of those persons who would much rather make a complete fool of themselves, than ever admit that things might be a little less black and white than they claim.
After all "I know that I am right". Right?.
I suspect that you are one of those persons who would much rather make a complete fool of themselves, than ever admit that things might be a little less black and white than they claim.
After all "I know that I am right". Right?.
Union Goon
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Sometimes I am right Conan. Of course I know where those clips came from, and I know very much that they are out of context. You did not provide any information on where those clips came from for anyone else reading the thread, however.
You said I was anti Brit, or inferred it by 4 clips.
That is not true. You don't know me, or anything about me. I KNOW for certain I am not Anti Brit, so Yep, I know that I am right.
CHeers
Wino
You said I was anti Brit, or inferred it by 4 clips.
That is not true. You don't know me, or anything about me. I KNOW for certain I am not Anti Brit, so Yep, I know that I am right.
CHeers
Wino
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Hmmm
Having seen the data Flying Lawyer refers to, I wholeheartedly agree with his point.
Seems to me folks in this country are getting a wee bit too stateside in the urgency to litigate these days...
Having seen the data Flying Lawyer refers to, I wholeheartedly agree with his point.
Seems to me folks in this country are getting a wee bit too stateside in the urgency to litigate these days...
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I agree with what you're all saying, chaps. But going back to the point.......we're any of you there?
OK - we're talking about an event that happened nearly 18 months ago ; Post Traumatic Stress doesn't necessarily occur immediately after the event, it can take a lot longer for it to rear its ugly head. I think you should cut these people some slack before jumping on the 'Hot McDonalds Coffee' litigation-wagon.
5150
OK - we're talking about an event that happened nearly 18 months ago ; Post Traumatic Stress doesn't necessarily occur immediately after the event, it can take a lot longer for it to rear its ugly head. I think you should cut these people some slack before jumping on the 'Hot McDonalds Coffee' litigation-wagon.
5150
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(5150 is right about 'you know who'. If he doesn't go away, best to just ignore him)
I don't doubt it was terrifying and don't doubt some, some pax probably had nightmares afterwards. You don't have to be a genius to understand that, and I sympathise with them.
But there's a big differences between what we know is a quite normal reaction and "Post Traumatic Stress Disorder"? The common term for the difference is "money", the technical term is "Make a Quick Buck Syndrome."
Flying Lawyer's comments near the beginning of this thread are worth reading if anyone joined late. I can't compete with the way he puts things so won't try.
And although I haven't seen the reconstruction at Cranebank myself, what FL and Jock Alert say about it is what I've been told by colleagues who have.
I don't doubt it was terrifying and don't doubt some, some pax probably had nightmares afterwards. You don't have to be a genius to understand that, and I sympathise with them.
But there's a big differences between what we know is a quite normal reaction and "Post Traumatic Stress Disorder"? The common term for the difference is "money", the technical term is "Make a Quick Buck Syndrome."
Flying Lawyer's comments near the beginning of this thread are worth reading if anyone joined late. I can't compete with the way he puts things so won't try.
And although I haven't seen the reconstruction at Cranebank myself, what FL and Jock Alert say about it is what I've been told by colleagues who have.
Last edited by Alty Meter; 6th May 2002 at 11:08.
Union Goon
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While I am the first to agree that the US (and probably UK) seriously need tort reform, it does serve a valuable function to protect the public from corporations that willingly do dangerous or illegal things and keeps the world from being run by General Motors and big tabacco as big corporations are sometimes accused of.
So how would you reform the tort system would be the big question? My proposal would be that plaintiffs never receive punative damage, instead punative damage is paid into the federal general fund as a tax (non deductable of course) Everyone should be entitled to their actual damages and typically those awards are somewhere close to reasonable. It is the punative damages that go the far side of 10 figures. I agree that corporations sometimes need to be punished. However, people and lawyers shouldn't get rich from it. Law fees will be paid at a reasonable and prevailing rate for actual expenses, they don't get to take 1/3 of the punative either.
So basically that would be taking the lottery out of the legal system while still reserving the ability to punish the insensitve corporate entity for wrong doing, negligence, sloth etc...
Cheers
Wino
So how would you reform the tort system would be the big question? My proposal would be that plaintiffs never receive punative damage, instead punative damage is paid into the federal general fund as a tax (non deductable of course) Everyone should be entitled to their actual damages and typically those awards are somewhere close to reasonable. It is the punative damages that go the far side of 10 figures. I agree that corporations sometimes need to be punished. However, people and lawyers shouldn't get rich from it. Law fees will be paid at a reasonable and prevailing rate for actual expenses, they don't get to take 1/3 of the punative either.
So basically that would be taking the lottery out of the legal system while still reserving the ability to punish the insensitve corporate entity for wrong doing, negligence, sloth etc...
Cheers
Wino
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On the subject of 'damages' in airplane situations, it is very rare for a plaintiff to be awarded punitive damages. The airlines have successfully argued, in several cases, against punitive awards. That is why wrongful death awards in plane crashes are in the range $1M to $5m, while tobacco cases are much higher. Note also that 'sovereign' airlines, i.e those owned by a government, are specifically protected under US law from punitive damages, no matter how egregious their actions.
Union Goon
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I believe punative damages were assessed against Panam when the plaintiffs proved that the drug sniffing dogs were simply rented for the advertisement...
I may be wrong,hwever, but that is how I recall it going. There was a big award and as an international flight covered by the warsaw convention limiting airline liability, that is the only way the award could have happened.
Cheers
Wino
I may be wrong,hwever, but that is how I recall it going. There was a big award and as an international flight covered by the warsaw convention limiting airline liability, that is the only way the award could have happened.
Cheers
Wino
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Conan
Best to let it go whilst you have the moral high ground / quit while you're ahead.
Otherwise we'll have even more propaganda to skip over when we want to follow the main debate.
Best to let it go whilst you have the moral high ground / quit while you're ahead.
Otherwise we'll have even more propaganda to skip over when we want to follow the main debate.
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I was really concerned about staying on the thread but since the only thread is bashing me and the moderators don't seam concerned enough to stop it, I guess you obviously are asking for more.... So I will oblige you.
Once again the Palestinians have comitted another crime against Humanity. Everytime the Israeli's let up, look what happens. Certainly makes one wonder what Israel has to gain by letting up on the Palestinians.
They Palestinians just keep making the case for Israel. As to stupid comparisons on weapons. If the Palestinians had Israeli weapons they would be using them to carpet bomb telaviv something Isreal was quite capable of doing to Jenin but restrained themselves. The Israelis gave the Palestinians all many of their assualt rifles under the Oslo accords only to have the security forces promptly turn around and start shooting at the IDF with whom they were supposed to be working with.
Yeah that was smart, Israel gives the palestinians weapons.
Almost 100 people killed and wounded today. There is no way that can be justified. By targeting civilians the Palestinians are carrying out the most serious crime there is, a crime against humanity.
And for the other person going on about the mail bomber. We got him already today, and we won't be letting him go, unlike the Palestinian authority which doesn't even keep the convicted criminals in jail, why should anyone expect them to put others away when they don't keep the ones they already caught away. Obviously the PA can't be trusted.
Cheers
Wino
Once again the Palestinians have comitted another crime against Humanity. Everytime the Israeli's let up, look what happens. Certainly makes one wonder what Israel has to gain by letting up on the Palestinians.
They Palestinians just keep making the case for Israel. As to stupid comparisons on weapons. If the Palestinians had Israeli weapons they would be using them to carpet bomb telaviv something Isreal was quite capable of doing to Jenin but restrained themselves. The Israelis gave the Palestinians all many of their assualt rifles under the Oslo accords only to have the security forces promptly turn around and start shooting at the IDF with whom they were supposed to be working with.
Yeah that was smart, Israel gives the palestinians weapons.
Almost 100 people killed and wounded today. There is no way that can be justified. By targeting civilians the Palestinians are carrying out the most serious crime there is, a crime against humanity.
And for the other person going on about the mail bomber. We got him already today, and we won't be letting him go, unlike the Palestinian authority which doesn't even keep the convicted criminals in jail, why should anyone expect them to put others away when they don't keep the ones they already caught away. Obviously the PA can't be trusted.
Cheers
Wino
Last edited by Wino; 8th May 2002 at 03:14.
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Very good point Wino.
I now realise you were right all along. It never occured to me for a moment that Israeli troops invading Palestine with tanks and bulldozers would make the Palestinian militants hit back with more suicide bombers.
I agree it's very sad about the deaths yesterday, both the civilian victims and the suicide bomber. (I suppose that goes with the job.)
I'd be much happier if the bombers went for the Knesset or military targets, but I suppose they are too heavily guarded. Sharon's house one night would be a good one, but I suppose that's not feasible for the same reason.
(In Confidence)
Pssssst! I don't mind discussing this issue with you, but I think what the chaps were trying to do was get you to go away and discuss the Israeli/Palestine conflict on a more appropriate thread.
Strange that, isn't it?
And I wouldn't say too much about Moderators intervening or one of them might just wonder what that long propaganda article about Israel and antisemitism is doing here.
Cheers
Alty
Aren't zealots funny?
I now realise you were right all along. It never occured to me for a moment that Israeli troops invading Palestine with tanks and bulldozers would make the Palestinian militants hit back with more suicide bombers.
I agree it's very sad about the deaths yesterday, both the civilian victims and the suicide bomber. (I suppose that goes with the job.)
I'd be much happier if the bombers went for the Knesset or military targets, but I suppose they are too heavily guarded. Sharon's house one night would be a good one, but I suppose that's not feasible for the same reason.
(In Confidence)
Pssssst! I don't mind discussing this issue with you, but I think what the chaps were trying to do was get you to go away and discuss the Israeli/Palestine conflict on a more appropriate thread.
Strange that, isn't it?
And I wouldn't say too much about Moderators intervening or one of them might just wonder what that long propaganda article about Israel and antisemitism is doing here.
Cheers
Alty
Aren't zealots funny?
Last edited by Alty Meter; 8th May 2002 at 10:28.
Union Goon
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I had posted the article partially in hopes tha the moderator would prune the whole thread down to what we are supposed to be talking about. They didn't and I guess it is because they respect my right to defend myself from stupid criticism. They obviously can see that there is no point in letting peanut gallery threaten every thread. As to your post.
I assume that you are kidding about feeling bad about the suicide bomber. That is the only person who got what they derserved. I think that the Israelis should start burying the remains of the suicide bombers in Pig skins. Doesn't that keep them from getting into Heaven to collect their virgins?
I would like to point out that it has been 3 weeks since the last suicide bomber hit Israel. a period of time of peace in Israel that has occured in YEARS. So you have to admit that so far the impirical evidence is that the tanks and bulldozers have saved many Israeli lives. Although this was tragic These tragedies happened 6 days in a row leading up to the invasion Right there you have the justification for whatever military action the Israeli's want to take.
The Palestinians get out of control because it looks like they can do whatever they want and the Israeli's are told to "use restraint" which is NOT the way to deal with this situation. All restraint has gotten the Isreali's is thousands of dead and wounded citizens.
Cheers
Wino
I assume that you are kidding about feeling bad about the suicide bomber. That is the only person who got what they derserved. I think that the Israelis should start burying the remains of the suicide bombers in Pig skins. Doesn't that keep them from getting into Heaven to collect their virgins?
I would like to point out that it has been 3 weeks since the last suicide bomber hit Israel. a period of time of peace in Israel that has occured in YEARS. So you have to admit that so far the impirical evidence is that the tanks and bulldozers have saved many Israeli lives. Although this was tragic These tragedies happened 6 days in a row leading up to the invasion Right there you have the justification for whatever military action the Israeli's want to take.
The Palestinians get out of control because it looks like they can do whatever they want and the Israeli's are told to "use restraint" which is NOT the way to deal with this situation. All restraint has gotten the Isreali's is thousands of dead and wounded citizens.
Cheers
Wino
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Wino
I understand the reason you say you posted that article in this discussion. Sorry, I don't believe you and even if I did I think it's an irrational reason. Let's just agree to differ.
Your hunch about why the Mods aren't tougher with you may be right. I don't think it is, but I'd prefer not to say what my hunch is.
No, I wasn't kidding about it being sad about the deaths of both the Israeli victims and the Palestinian suicide bomber. That's not the same as saying I agree with the bomber's actions.
'peanut gallery'?
I don't know that expression. I assume it's not complimentary because you have this silly habit of being patronising and rude to and about people who challenge your more extreme views.
Is it much the same as 'mental midgets' which you used today? I thought that was funny, but it's terribly rude. It's very arrogant to say people who don't agree with you lack your mental capacity. You don't seem to realise that's one of the things that gets people's backs up (makes them annoyed). Or perhaps you do, and use it as a debating technique.
As for the rest of your post.
It's got absolutely nothing to do with either the main topic of this thread, or the sub-threadwhich has developed, so I won't respond to that. Time will tell if you're right about the best way to achieve long term peace.
I understand the reason you say you posted that article in this discussion. Sorry, I don't believe you and even if I did I think it's an irrational reason. Let's just agree to differ.
Your hunch about why the Mods aren't tougher with you may be right. I don't think it is, but I'd prefer not to say what my hunch is.
No, I wasn't kidding about it being sad about the deaths of both the Israeli victims and the Palestinian suicide bomber. That's not the same as saying I agree with the bomber's actions.
'peanut gallery'?
I don't know that expression. I assume it's not complimentary because you have this silly habit of being patronising and rude to and about people who challenge your more extreme views.
Is it much the same as 'mental midgets' which you used today? I thought that was funny, but it's terribly rude. It's very arrogant to say people who don't agree with you lack your mental capacity. You don't seem to realise that's one of the things that gets people's backs up (makes them annoyed). Or perhaps you do, and use it as a debating technique.
As for the rest of your post.
It's got absolutely nothing to do with either the main topic of this thread, or the sub-threadwhich has developed, so I won't respond to that. Time will tell if you're right about the best way to achieve long term peace.
Last edited by Alty Meter; 8th May 2002 at 19:42.
