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Syria A320 mid air collision

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Syria A320 mid air collision

Old 25th Sep 2012, 21:54
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Syria A320 mid air collision

Accident: Syrian Arab A320 near Damascus on Sep 20th 2012, mid air collision with helicopter
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Old 25th Sep 2012, 23:51
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Wow...what a hell of a Giant airmanship crew and piloting skills !!

Would love to see a video!

Last edited by JanetFlight; 25th Sep 2012 at 23:51.
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 07:04
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It must be absolutely dangerous in Damascus airspace with all that is going on right now. Great job by the crew. A nice story in an awful war.
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 07:24
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I am going to put them on my file "Superb Airmanship"!
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 07:52
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It must be absolutely dangerous in Damascus airspace with all that is going on right now. Great job by the crew. A nice story in an awful war.
Maybe is the reason that some are requesting a "no fly zone" ??

Last edited by jcjeant; 26th Sep 2012 at 07:53.
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 08:28
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I find it hard to sympathise with a helicopter crew who are killing their own citizens. Some would call it justice.
However to land an A320 with such damage gives great credit to the crew and aircraft.
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 08:43
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Pretty amazing for the A320 to have survived that.


Great job by the crew.
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 08:46
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I find it hard to sympathise with a helicopter crew who are killing their own citizens.
Are you sure ?
Maybe the pilots were "rebels" ? (who are also killing their own citizens)
This is some defections in the Syrian army ......

Last edited by jcjeant; 26th Sep 2012 at 08:49.
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 11:15
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What was a helo doing at FL 120?
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 12:27
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reducing their risks, perhaps

I think the rebels have claimed at least two helicopter downings.
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 12:42
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I guess he tried to avoid getting shot down by rebel AA... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ8GpWoCO7c.
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 13:03
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Well I think that you can file this incident with our data base of how much rudder is needed without asymetrical thrust.
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 13:37
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why superb?

DOVES wrote:
I am going to put them on my file "Superb Airmanship"!
Stilton wrote:
Great job by the crew.
Can you please enlighten me why it is great and/or superb to collide at FL120 in severe CAVOK conditions with a slow moving helicopter?

And special flying skills are not really necessary to bring home an aircraft with half the vertical stabilizer as long as both engines are running.
I guess the pilots were quite amazed by the extension of the damage after they had landed!

BTW - I doubt the fin has been clipped by the rotor blades. The Mil Mi 17 is quite massive, so it would have collided with the Airbus wing before sending its rotor blades into the fin. I guess the vertical stabilizer was rather colliding with the fuselage of the chopper.
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 13:56
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Can you please enlighten me why it is great and/or superb to collide at FL120 in severe CAVOK conditions with a slow moving helicopter?
Apparently the MI-17 was climbing fast to avoid AA fire, if the TCAS wasn't working or the helicopter didn't have a transponder (probable seeing as it is a military aircraft but I don't know anything about that). Flying the aircraft after it has sustained that much damage is good airmanship in most people's books. Although the Airbus systems probably helped a lot, it's still great flying by the crew.
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 14:10
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I guess you can say the same about large flocks of birds FA10. They are big and slow moving and they don't show on TCAS either. But no-one has ever crashed into them right?
Do you spend your entire flight with your eyes outside constantly scanning for aircraft? Or is there times, like on decent where your eyes are inside the cockpit briefing and planning for landing?

Oh and of course the rudder is only there for when one engine isn't running... I take it you have lost half your rudder and vertical stab before?

Last edited by lilflyboy262...2; 26th Sep 2012 at 14:12.
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 14:17
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you are absolutely right, there is always a chance to miss something outside. However what strikes me in that discussion is hailing the crew as heroes and comparing them with Sully - when they actually did not have a lot of positive input!

I have tried blocked rudder a couple of times in the sim, half fin is not being offered by the manufacturer...
A fin that is gone completely on an Airbus is not good - ask AA.
Partial supply is obviously enough to fly.

Last edited by FA10; 26th Sep 2012 at 14:24.
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 14:49
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Apparently the MI-17 was climbing fast to avoid AA fire, if the TCAS wasn't working or the helicopter didn't have a transponder (probable seeing as it is a military aircraft but I don't know anything about that).
I'm pretty sure that even if they do carry one, it's not actually turned on while actively engaging in warfare, as you wouldn't want to draw the enemy's AA fire to you. TCAS was hence most likely out of the question and only see and avoid could have prevented the collision.
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 14:57
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Why superb

@lomapseo
Well I think that you can file this incident with our data base of how much rudder is needed without asymetrical thrust.
- And dutch & roll without yaw damper and half a rudder?
- And probable hydraulic pressure loss + fluid depletion?
- And landing with some x-wind?
- And compensating for reduced tail weight and down moment?
- And what about stability on vertical axis?
Just some food for thoughts

@FA10
Can you please enlighten me why it is great and/or superb to collide at FL120 in severe CAVOK conditions with a slow moving helicopter?
Who told you who collided with whom?

@waffler
I find it hard to sympathise with a helicopter crew who are killing their own citizens. Some would call it justice.
I completely agree.
"THOU WON'T KILL YOUR BROTHER"
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 15:18
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Anyone know where the rudder hinges and hydraulics are in an A320? It looks like it was cut off high enough to miss these critical parts.
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 15:43
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I don't see how we can say" great flying" or not... for all we know the crew were almost unaware, or they had a 2.5 HYD sys fail in Mech Backup mode, and recovered after 3 Barrel Rolls

Why don't we wait and see, and then give praise if due
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