plane crash in Lagos Nigeria
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CONTAMINATED FUEL
Chuks you are on point.
The bowser wouldn't supply fuel to only 5N-RAM. They need to tell us more as the fuel vendor have not been questioned or advised to suspend fuelling aircrafts for further investigation.
The bowser wouldn't supply fuel to only 5N-RAM. They need to tell us more as the fuel vendor have not been questioned or advised to suspend fuelling aircrafts for further investigation.
Most (I would have said all but I'm not sure I'm missing something) non-combustible liquids tend to be rather high density, i.e. they would sink to the bottom. As some already pointed out that would cause trouble rather at the beginning than at the end of the leg. Moreover I would rather expect problems when high EPR is required, i.e. at take off. During approach even a degraded fuel quality should still be able to provide sufficient combustion, maybe requiring a somewhat higher fuel flow. Jet engines are generally quite tolerant with regard to what they are fed. I can see clogged filters killing off a jet engine, however most would still run happily on salad oil or other low calorific value fuel albeit producing less thrust.
So we are looking for something that floats on top of Jet A1, i.e. is of lower density, does not burn or (more likely) is able to clog the filters.
Wondering what type of substance we are looking for (apart from fire extinguisher foam
)?Any ideas anyone?
Have there been previous cases where fuel contamination caused jet engines of an airliner to quit during approach / landing? I really don't remember such a case but that doesn't mean they didn't exist.
Edit: Thanks @lomapaseo, I should have excluded BA038 from my last statement. That was after a intercontinental flight at high altitude and very low temperatures.
@Lonewolf: Now that you point me to it...
Last edited by henra; 20th Jun 2012 at 15:21.
henra, perhaps some cork ...
henra
I won't speculate on this accident
but for historical purposes only
"ice" or disolved crystals like "salt"
but like others have said, nobody has released any evidence to support speculations
I won't speculate on this accident
but for historical purposes only
"ice" or disolved crystals like "salt"
but like others have said, nobody has released any evidence to support speculations
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DUAL engine failure caused the crash of a Nigerian aircraft
"DUAL engine failure caused the crash of a Nigerian aircraft that killed at least 159 people last month, a preliminary official report says.
The probe into the June 3 Dana Air crash traced the cause "to the loss of two engines and non-functionality of the throttles on final descent from Abuja to Lagos", according to an accident investigation report released on Thursday.
All 153 people on board the McDonnell Douglas MD83 twin-engined jet died when it crashed into a neighbourhood near the airport in Lagos, and at least six people on the ground were killed.
The preliminary report said: "... the captain informed the FO (flight officer), 'we just lost everything, we lost an engine. I lost both engines'.
"During the next 25 seconds ... the flight crew was attempting to restart the engines."
The aeroplane then crashed about 10 kilometres north of Lagos.
The report denied media speculation that contaminated fuel could have affected the two engines.
Investigators will conduct further probes into the crash, the report said."
Read more: Engine failure caused Nigeria air crash | News.com.au
The probe into the June 3 Dana Air crash traced the cause "to the loss of two engines and non-functionality of the throttles on final descent from Abuja to Lagos", according to an accident investigation report released on Thursday.
All 153 people on board the McDonnell Douglas MD83 twin-engined jet died when it crashed into a neighbourhood near the airport in Lagos, and at least six people on the ground were killed.
The preliminary report said: "... the captain informed the FO (flight officer), 'we just lost everything, we lost an engine. I lost both engines'.
"During the next 25 seconds ... the flight crew was attempting to restart the engines."
The aeroplane then crashed about 10 kilometres north of Lagos.
The report denied media speculation that contaminated fuel could have affected the two engines.
Investigators will conduct further probes into the crash, the report said."
Read more: Engine failure caused Nigeria air crash | News.com.au
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I guess "non-fuctionality of throttles" means they don't work when there is no longer fuel being fed to the engines.
I am asking.
I am asking.
Last edited by aterpster; 13th Jul 2012 at 01:22.
Given that you are analyzing journospeak, aterpster, your guess is as good as mine.
You could infer from that language that someone is suggesting throttles not working versus fuel starvation as the major contributor to the crash.
Hope the investigators figure it out.
You could infer from that language that someone is suggesting throttles not working versus fuel starvation as the major contributor to the crash.
Hope the investigators figure it out.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 13th Jul 2012 at 13:35.
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I confess I don't come from an aviation background but I thought FDR's were pretty indestructible..? Do those in the know agree that an FDR would be destroyed in this manner? Or is it just a matter of "convenience" that the FDR's aren't available to be examined...? (Honest question from someone who doesn't know the answer)
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Hopefully the engine fuel filters and lines still contain some of the original fuel, and did not get cooked to vapor by the fire.
This description of power not following the throttles reminds me of a severe case of water contamination in the fuel of a J-52 on an A-4 Skyhawk. The crew noted unusual performance from the engine during a night GCA. At minimums, they attempted to waveoff only to have the cockpit go dark as the engine flamed out. Fortunately the student had been a little bit fast on glideslope and they were able to flare and land. The water contamination test of the contents of the main fuel filter showed actual washing out of the soluble water detection media on the sample test filters. The water content was so high that it was not measurable using normal water detection technology. A SWAG at the water content was in the 20% range!
The J-52 design and the JT-8 share a common history if I recall correctly.
This description of power not following the throttles reminds me of a severe case of water contamination in the fuel of a J-52 on an A-4 Skyhawk. The crew noted unusual performance from the engine during a night GCA. At minimums, they attempted to waveoff only to have the cockpit go dark as the engine flamed out. Fortunately the student had been a little bit fast on glideslope and they were able to flare and land. The water contamination test of the contents of the main fuel filter showed actual washing out of the soluble water detection media on the sample test filters. The water content was so high that it was not measurable using normal water detection technology. A SWAG at the water content was in the 20% range!
The J-52 design and the JT-8 share a common history if I recall correctly.
Investigators typically will want to x-ray examine the fuel controls before bench testing. This should confirm if metering valves are stuck in an unexpected position.
After bench testing we could know a lot more
Of course we haven't seen any reports about the condition of the engines, as found, that confirm the level of power
Obviously things don't add up or we would have heard a lot more
I've heard nothing about the condition of the DFDR being melted. Yes it's pretty hard to do in your typical prang and ground pool fire. Mostly because it gets ejected to ground level where temperatures are cooler. I'm not sure where this one was found in this accident.
still not enough info to even speculate about
After bench testing we could know a lot more
Of course we haven't seen any reports about the condition of the engines, as found, that confirm the level of power
Obviously things don't add up or we would have heard a lot more
I've heard nothing about the condition of the DFDR being melted. Yes it's pretty hard to do in your typical prang and ground pool fire. Mostly because it gets ejected to ground level where temperatures are cooler. I'm not sure where this one was found in this accident.
still not enough info to even speculate about
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Interim Report on DANA 992
Naija pilot
Thanks for the report
I see that the FDR is an old vintage tape recorder. I forgot those still existed on that type of plane.
I suspect that the loss of data makes the investigation of the engines much more difficult, especially if there were no signs on either engine of a mechanical fault.
That leaves open the possibility that the engines might have both been shutdown at the same time under suspicion by the crew rather than trouble shoot one engine at a time.
Please keep us informed of any new information.
Thanks for the report
I see that the FDR is an old vintage tape recorder. I forgot those still existed on that type of plane.
I suspect that the loss of data makes the investigation of the engines much more difficult, especially if there were no signs on either engine of a mechanical fault.
That leaves open the possibility that the engines might have both been shutdown at the same time under suspicion by the crew rather than trouble shoot one engine at a time.
Please keep us informed of any new information.
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I confess I don't come from an aviation background but I thought FDR's were pretty indestructible..? Do those in the know agree that an FDR would be destroyed in this manner? Or is it just a matter of "convenience" that the FDR's aren't available to be examined...?
I would point out one obvious thing which you seemed to have overlooked. Outside of a plane crash of this magnitude, can you think of anything in Nigeria capable of generating enough heat to melt an FDR. I can't.
Last edited by MountainBear; 15th Jul 2012 at 03:24.
That leaves open the possibility that the engines might have both been shutdown at the same time under suspicion by the crew rather than trouble shoot one engine at a time.
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Dana crash victims were alive in plane inferno – Pathologist
Consultant Pathologist and Chief Medical Examiner of the Lagos State University Teaching Hospital, Prof. John Obafunwa, on Wednesday said there was evidence that some of the dead victims of the June 3 plane crash in Iju-Ishaga area of Lagos were still alive while the fire that resulted from the accident was burning.
Dana crash victims were alive in plane inferno ? Pathologist ? The Punch - Nigeria's Most Widely Read Newspaper
Dana crash victims were alive in plane inferno ? Pathologist ? The Punch - Nigeria's Most Widely Read Newspaper
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That leaves open the possibility that the engines might have both been shutdown at the same time under suspicion by the crew rather than trouble shoot one engine at a time.
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Originally posted by MountainBear
It's unusual but neither unheard of nor impossible for a crash to destroy the FDR. Most unfortunate..
I would point out one obvious thing which you seemed to have overlooked. Outside of a plane crash of this magnitude, can you think of anything in Nigeria capable of generating enough heat to melt an FDR. I can't.
It's unusual but neither unheard of nor impossible for a crash to destroy the FDR. Most unfortunate..
I would point out one obvious thing which you seemed to have overlooked. Outside of a plane crash of this magnitude, can you think of anything in Nigeria capable of generating enough heat to melt an FDR. I can't.
That still leaves the question why it happened in this case, when locating the crash site and getting there was no problem at all. But I could imagine several reasons, and malicious intent to prevent a thorough investigation would not be at the top of my list.
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"and getting there was no problem at all"
REALLY? have you ever tried to go anywhere in Lagos??? it's a nightmare - and all the reports talk of hundreds of people all trying to rescue their family, friends belongings and even more people turning up for the show
REALLY? have you ever tried to go anywhere in Lagos??? it's a nightmare - and all the reports talk of hundreds of people all trying to rescue their family, friends belongings and even more people turning up for the show
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No, I haven't, and I'm glad I don't have to.
My inappropriate choice of words may have been influenced by the Lauda Air crash that I mentioned (where the report simply states that "no fire fighting activities took place due to the remote location and general inaccessibility of the accident site"). My apologies.
My inappropriate choice of words may have been influenced by the Lauda Air crash that I mentioned (where the report simply states that "no fire fighting activities took place due to the remote location and general inaccessibility of the accident site"). My apologies.