A Sukhoi superjet 100 is missing
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Machinbird 20 June:
Maybe it's worth thinking about this a bit more. We were told that this was a test aircraft, substituted because of a last-minute issue with the original sales demonstration aircraft. I seem to recall reading that the cockpit was equipped with parachutes, and you can see in the video of the first flight that the cabin attendant appears apologetic about the test equipment occupying some of the seat space in the passenger cabin. So it was a somewhat more complex aircraft than normal, and a test pilot had been assigned.
Is it conceivable that software was changed for the demonstration purposes and that pilot was not aware that he did not have his usual climbing ability because of a substituted g limitation? In which case this might not be pilot error so much as a Sukhoi administrative miss.
Anyone know if the Superjet has hard or soft g limits in its flight control system?
It would be a bear to find out that you need 2.8 g to miss terrain (through faulty planning of course), and to have the system limit you 2.5 g.
It would be a bear to find out that you need 2.8 g to miss terrain (through faulty planning of course), and to have the system limit you 2.5 g.
Is it conceivable that software was changed for the demonstration purposes and that pilot was not aware that he did not have his usual climbing ability because of a substituted g limitation? In which case this might not be pilot error so much as a Sukhoi administrative miss.
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A Boeing CEO curse on BCA presidents? - FlightBlogger - Aviation News, Commentary and Analysis
Knkt 001 5 Vi Rek.ku 12 English
Knkt 001 5 Vi Rek.ku 12 English
Last edited by jcjeant; 27th Jun 2012 at 03:28.
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Sorry onetrack
But this is utterly stupid:
"There is a subtle increase in complacency and a corresponding lowering of professionalism in many skilled people as they age, and as their experience, and "hours in the seat" increases."
You can speak by yourself or people that built their careers on a less than professional environment, on dated standards, bad training and such.
'Au contraire', as people age, the more they learn from mistakes, from stupid things like this one, on how expensive being casual or too relaxed can be on accomplishing our tasks.
The accident statistics aren't age related, but very linked to air safety culture and psychological/psychiatric factors.
No much different from road accidents.
There are many, many stories were the silver haired just saved the day. The reverse isn't true.
"There is a subtle increase in complacency and a corresponding lowering of professionalism in many skilled people as they age, and as their experience, and "hours in the seat" increases."
You can speak by yourself or people that built their careers on a less than professional environment, on dated standards, bad training and such.
'Au contraire', as people age, the more they learn from mistakes, from stupid things like this one, on how expensive being casual or too relaxed can be on accomplishing our tasks.
The accident statistics aren't age related, but very linked to air safety culture and psychological/psychiatric factors.
No much different from road accidents.
There are many, many stories were the silver haired just saved the day. The reverse isn't true.
Last edited by fullforward; 27th Jun 2012 at 08:12.
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There are many, many stories were the silver haired just saved the day. The reverse isn't true.
Don't get me wrong, I mostly agree with you. Experience does provide a bit more caution in how one operates, a caution that is not high on the priorities list when you are younger. But I think that might be more due to age than experience. It might also be due to non-aviation related issues which you experience as you grow older.
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Really?? Give us some examples of "Many"
Airline captain dies while flying plane - but, after a short stop, passengers reach destination | Mail Online
Or Here:
Czech Airlines Captain Dies During Flight - Bloomberg
Or how about the one that went bonkers on the JetBlue flight just a few months ago?
Sorry, but relevant to the topic because of what was said in previous posts.
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Given that the age of the accident pilot doesn't seem to be a factor, why not start another thread highlighting age-related accidents, if you really need to bang that drum?
I think it would be pretty easy to shoot down your basic premise, but this probably isn't the place for that. Start another thread and then stand by for incoming!
I think it would be pretty easy to shoot down your basic premise, but this probably isn't the place for that. Start another thread and then stand by for incoming!
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reading a book on risk and popular delusions there was a peice on Cicero- when the great Roman was shown a shrine to a Godess whose intervention had saved a lot of sailors on a particular occasion he looked about and enquired where were the shrines to all the sailors who had been drowned when she had not intervened = don't base your decisions or argument on hear-say
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Первый полет не очень понравился самому пилоту: он оказался довольно коротким, а снижаться на коротком участке с высоты 3 км пришлось слишком резко, что было некомфортно для пассажиров. Яблонцев внес изменения в план второго полета. На дальней от аэропорта Джакарты точке командир судна решил сделать не разворот, а дополнительный круг, чтобы снизиться на нем до 6 тыс. футов, выиграв таким образом и высоту для последующей более комфортной посадки, и общее время полета...В последнем рейсе лайнером управлял уже не экипаж, а автопилот. Сначала самолет двигался по контрольным точкам, координаты и высоты которых летчики заложили в память бортового компьютера перед началом полета. Перед вторым кругом экипажу пришлось перейти на другой режим работы автопилота - Select Heading (Выбор курса). Поворачивая регулятор, пилот провел самолет по кругу, а при выходе из него допустил ошибку, задав курс не на север, к аэропорту Халим-Перданакусума, а на юг, к горе Салак высотой 7254 фута.
In the last flight the liner was controlled by a/p. First the plane followed way points, the coordinates and altitudes given to memory of FMS by pilots before the flight. To do the circle, the crew had to switch a/p to another mode - Select Heading. Turning the knob, the pilot held the aircraft in a circle, and when exiting from it he made a mistake by setting the heading not to the north to the airport, but south to Mount Salak height of 7254 feet.
Source: Крушение SSJ-100: к ошибке привели диспетчер и российский атлас - БК daily - Статьи
Last edited by Karel_x; 9th Jul 2012 at 12:09.
It would take a lot of a coincidence to err by 180 being 30nm from your airport and thereby exactly flying up a canyon and straight at the end hitting the peak
.On that planned route back to Jakarta there wouldn't have been any moutains, had they turned to the North instead of the South. So when looking out the window you should not see green on your FL.
So, according to that theory they couldn't even see the canyon walls, flew 5 miles up the canyon w/o ever coming close enough to one side of the canyon to see it ???
Occam's Razor raises some doubts with me about this theory. Looks to me a bit like the Politically Correct version. Simple mistake, no deliberate dangerous action, plane not at fault, all are happy....
I hope we get to see something more substantiated or otherwise proof of the improbable.
Last edited by henra; 9th Jul 2012 at 20:03.
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[QUOTE"There is a subtle increase in complacency and a corresponding lowering of professionalism in many skilled people as they age, and as their experience, and "hours in the seat" increases.[/QUOTE]
Sullenberger, De Crespigny, Haynes...........
One of the most idiotic comments in the history of PPrune.
Sullenberger, De Crespigny, Haynes...........
One of the most idiotic comments in the history of PPrune.
FX Guru
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Turning the knob, the pilot held the aircraft in a circle, and when exiting from it he made a mistake by setting the heading not to the north to the airport, but south to Mount Salak height of 7254 feet.
What is the source for the above quote? Is it reliable, or is it just an "I reckon this could have happened" type piece?
Afraid my Russian is not up to much!
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What is the source for the above quote? Is it reliable, or is it just an "I reckon this could have happened" type piece?
It is hard to believe that they did mistake like this. But this theory is not in contradiction with known facts. I thing that if CVR did not give answer why they turn against the mountains, we never be sure what theory is correct. Looking on chart, I thing that they should follow the course 020 and they flew 200. This was last 7 miles or last 2,5 minutes.
Findings from the investigation into the May 9 crash of a Sukhoi Superjet 100 will be released by the end of summer, Russian officials said.
Last edited by Karel_x; 10th Jul 2012 at 21:03.
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That to me is a reciprocal error, but I can't really believe such a basic mistake could be made nowadays
It is hard to believe that they did mistake like this
I understand from the earlier post that instead of a 180 he decided to make an extra 360; he probably rolled out after 360 instead of 540. Would confuse me...
Anyway, it is still newspaper gossip.
Last edited by golfyankeesierra; 10th Jul 2012 at 21:50.
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True, but they actually had tried to set 027--something strange about the nav unit, like it had four digits instead of three, can't remember exactly.
One interesting thing about that crash was that the story was that they were listening to the World Cup finals on the ADF--Brazil was playing--and got so distracted they never knew where they were.
The truth, however, turned out to be that when they did realize they were lost, the crew tried to tune in broadcast stations to get a fix, though they never could find one strong enough to use. And of course every broadcast station in Brazil was playing the finals, so when a flight attendant at some point went into the cockpit, the passengers in the front rows heard the football game and spread the story to the press.
One interesting thing about that crash was that the story was that they were listening to the World Cup finals on the ADF--Brazil was playing--and got so distracted they never knew where they were.
The truth, however, turned out to be that when they did realize they were lost, the crew tried to tune in broadcast stations to get a fix, though they never could find one strong enough to use. And of course every broadcast station in Brazil was playing the finals, so when a flight attendant at some point went into the cockpit, the passengers in the front rows heard the football game and spread the story to the press.
And how would the expierienced believers in this cover up press leak explain the shouting TAWS?
Three crew members, one an expierienced test pilot, one a navigator, a brand new aircraft with all gimmicks, a demontration flight to sell the aircraft and a mountain in the way of a reciprocal navigation error when just descended below MSA enroute to a sea resort would then add up to a crew with hearing problems (TAWS).
Three crew members, one an expierienced test pilot, one a navigator, a brand new aircraft with all gimmicks, a demontration flight to sell the aircraft and a mountain in the way of a reciprocal navigation error when just descended below MSA enroute to a sea resort would then add up to a crew with hearing problems (TAWS).
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And how would the expierienced believers in this cover up press leak explain the shouting TAWS?