Bhoja Air 213 down near Islamabad
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tyre marks in a field just before the crash site and uprooted tree(s) also located. some parts of the fuselage are totally charred, parts of the wings dont show much (or any) burn damage.
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Can't believe such old aircraft are in service. I know if an a/c is maintained well it can last for years (WW2 a/c etc) but I think 32 years for a commercial a/c is pushing it.
Will wait for the report before I jump to conclusions though...
Will wait for the report before I jump to conclusions though...
Sounds as if you already have !
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The problem is that Pakistan never publishes accident investigations so the only information we are ever going to get is what can be pieced together from press reports and speculation.
What is already clear is that something went badly wrong while they were passing through a storm cell on final approach. If reports of the PF reporting loss of control by radio are true (yea right) is would seem likely that the aircraft suffered damage in the storm.
Such events are rare but they have happened in the past.
What is already clear is that something went badly wrong while they were passing through a storm cell on final approach. If reports of the PF reporting loss of control by radio are true (yea right) is would seem likely that the aircraft suffered damage in the storm.
Such events are rare but they have happened in the past.
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1) A lot of people forget that this is a news and rumours sub-forum.
2) A lot of people remind others that this is a news and rumours sub-forum.
3) All incidents and accidents occur due to a chain of events.
4) Eye witness accounts are unreliable. Read up on the JFK assassination for example.
The probable cause of this major accident is a fatigued flight crew, who had received awful training on said type, flew into bad met. conditions and got either disoriented or did not follow standard procedure when it came to executing an instrument-related approach (i.e. CFIT).
2) A lot of people remind others that this is a news and rumours sub-forum.
3) All incidents and accidents occur due to a chain of events.
4) Eye witness accounts are unreliable. Read up on the JFK assassination for example.
The probable cause of this major accident is a fatigued flight crew, who had received awful training on said type, flew into bad met. conditions and got either disoriented or did not follow standard procedure when it came to executing an instrument-related approach (i.e. CFIT).
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The probable cause of this major accident is a fatigued flight crew, who had received awful training on said type, flew into bad met. conditions and got either disoriented or did not follow standard procedure when it came to executing an instrument-related approach (i.e. CFIT).
How absurd can you be.
Obviously very little factual information is available, however if we take the statement that the co-pilot radioed a loss of control and the unusual speed and altitude it's just as likely that either windshear or structural damage (or both) led to an unrecoverable condition.
How absurd can you be.
Obviously very little factual information is available, however if we take the statement that the co-pilot radioed a loss of control and the unusual speed and altitude it's just as likely that either windshear or structural damage (or both) led to an unrecoverable condition.
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why cant it be a microburst? why does it have to be a very complex chain of events starting when the mother gave birth to the captain? 
for those who are current on B732, when you are about 4NM from touchdown, that puts you just over 1300feet AGL, and you are hit by a strong microburst, is that 600 to 700 feet enough to recover?
ps its been confirmed by crews on the radio at the time that there was no mayday, loss of control or fire or any non routine radio call made by the bhoja crew. last call heard was the pilots confirming landing clearance.
edited to correct altitude
for those who are current on B732, when you are about 4NM from touchdown, that puts you just over 1300feet AGL, and you are hit by a strong microburst, is that 600 to 700 feet enough to recover?
ps its been confirmed by crews on the radio at the time that there was no mayday, loss of control or fire or any non routine radio call made by the bhoja crew. last call heard was the pilots confirming landing clearance.
edited to correct altitude
Last edited by denlopviper; 22nd Apr 2012 at 06:35.
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The problem is that Pakistan never publishes accident investigations so the only information we are ever going to get is what can be pieced together from press reports and speculation.
The only thing about that report that bothers me is that each page is marked, "Confidential".
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why cant it be a microburst? why does it have to be a very complex chain of events starting when the mother gave birth to the captain?
for those who are current on B732, when you are about 4NM from touchdown, that puts you just over 1300feet AGL, and you are hit by a strong microburst, is that 600 to 700 feet enough to recover?
for those who are current on B732, when you are about 4NM from touchdown, that puts you just over 1300feet AGL, and you are hit by a strong microburst, is that 600 to 700 feet enough to recover?
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so let me get this straight. you went from crew fatigue, to aweful type training (which btw was done abroad, as i recall South Africa) to now saying they knowingly flew into an active thunderstorm and therefore standards of crews are bad?
just so you know the crash happened 2.5NM south east of the field, while the active CB cell was west of the field. so yeah they were out of the storms path through out the flight. also reported winds on the ground were 20kts gusting 30kts.
just so you know the crash happened 2.5NM south east of the field, while the active CB cell was west of the field. so yeah they were out of the storms path through out the flight. also reported winds on the ground were 20kts gusting 30kts.
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Josh, please go back and try to get funding for your flight training instead of feeding every single accidant with "flight training standards" as the cause of the accidant while the wreckage is still burning. Wait until the report is out or mention something factual instead of your speculations. 
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whatever the cause and circumstances, the 'official' report will probably hold the interior aviation authority and local politics blameless and blame apportioned to the nationility of the pilot, the age of the aircraft, the country of manufacture of the aircraft etc etc.
result.. introduce an additional medical for non-national pilots, and ban aircraft over 10 years old and 'prevention' of a repeat incident is done. and no, this is not a generalisation, but an assessment predicated on historical events.
me ? i'll wait for any NTSB data (US manufactured aircraft) before speculating on cause and circumstance.
result.. introduce an additional medical for non-national pilots, and ban aircraft over 10 years old and 'prevention' of a repeat incident is done. and no, this is not a generalisation, but an assessment predicated on historical events.
me ? i'll wait for any NTSB data (US manufactured aircraft) before speculating on cause and circumstance.
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Stuckgear
Expats are not allowed on Pakistani carriers. the only ones with expat crew are Shaheen because their 737-800 are on wet lease
both pilots were pakistani. there are no expats in Bhoja, Airblue or PIA.
know the facts atleast
Expats are not allowed on Pakistani carriers. the only ones with expat crew are Shaheen because their 737-800 are on wet lease
both pilots were pakistani. there are no expats in Bhoja, Airblue or PIA.
know the facts atleast