Take off with snow on wing
It came to pass exactly as he promised.. A bit like going through a really top line car wash, and we took off pronto, up through the murk and into the clear air in no time. Was I silly to fuss about it, do you think?
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: world
Posts: 3,424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
4 pages of mainly rot and speculation. Well here's my contribution of rot and speculation: that the crew new exactly what the condition of the wings were - as became apparent during the take off run when it all blew away leaving a clean wing.
Tsamaya sentle
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Germany
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MA and HT, if your comments weren't tongue-in-cheek then I'd suggest you take a look here: http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/48221...eoff-roll.html
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No danger
Powder snow on the wing is of no importance. The dangerous thing is rime ice on the leading edge (slats) or just behind it. By the time the air flow is to the flaps, any powder snow will quickly be blown off, as you see here. If the leading edge is disrupted, then the snow on the flaps will remain and not be dispersed, because the flow is already rendered turbulent and separated farther up the wing. Then there is no lift.
Eight Gun Fighter
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Western Approaches
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It was nearly all gone by the time he rotated, can't see what all the fuss is about.
Air Ontario Flight 1363 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Oh, when will they ever learn?
Last edited by Rollingthunder; 10th Apr 2012 at 23:38.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We have to assume that the pilots were aware that the snow was powder (and even in the video, it sure looks and behaves like powder to me), and there was no ice beneath. Pilots are generally loath to kill themselves with stupidity.
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: EU
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Powder snow on the wing is of no importance. The dangerous thing is rime ice on the leading edge (slats) or just behind it. By the time the air flow is to the flaps, any powder snow will quickly be blown off, as you see here. If the leading edge is disrupted, then the snow on the flaps will remain and not be dispersed, because the flow is already rendered turbulent and separated farther up the wing. Then there is no lift.
1. the aircraft had contamination, "no importance" or not, it's not allowed. It's something that's been drilled into pilots since the PPL, and the ATPL books ramble on about that there must be nothing on the wings at all many times.
2. There could have been inches of ice under that snow and nobody would have known.
I wonder if any officials have seen this. I don't think it should go on pprune and no further.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well snow has a personality that is known to those who live in it. Ice below snow would not be confused with harmless powder on the surface. In fact a cursory de-icing might be more dangerous, because a condition with no melting and no actual contamination would be turned into one with at least partial melting and then being "on the clock", in very cold conditions.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mary
lt doesn`t work like that.
Maybe you could leave the ones with professional licences to get on with
it.
The renegades do not reflect on the rest.
Do you remember the fatal stabbing in lstanbul in 2000, or maybe late
1999, when one of Britains finest, a footie supporter, took to doing what
he did regularly at home ?
The point is not everyones keys are in the hat.
As Clint Eastwood said, or to paraphrase, do you feel lucky ?
Pay the extra for a brand, otherwise toss a coin.
x FAI 232
Maybe you could leave the ones with professional licences to get on with
it.
The renegades do not reflect on the rest.
Do you remember the fatal stabbing in lstanbul in 2000, or maybe late
1999, when one of Britains finest, a footie supporter, took to doing what
he did regularly at home ?
The point is not everyones keys are in the hat.
As Clint Eastwood said, or to paraphrase, do you feel lucky ?
Pay the extra for a brand, otherwise toss a coin.
x FAI 232
Fishes in a barrel, I know - apologies to the pilots on the forum - move on to the next post.
You might have to assume - I assume that, the pilots on this flight had no idea what condition the snow was.
"even in the video" - it's hard to see ice on a cheap phone recording - have a look ar the second take off vid posted on this thread - the ice barely shows up, but was obvious to the filmer.
Clear ice can hardly be seen in real life - even from the cabin windows, you have to feel for it.
"No ice beneath" - what was holding on to the bits of snow we can see even after the take off?
"Pilots are loath to kill themselves" - like idiots in cars, idiots on unstable ladders, etc etc, pilots can be stupid as well. The problem isn't that they are "loath to kill themselves" - its that they can't see the guy with the hood and sickle walking up behind them while they are laughing at the view out of the front window ....
Originally Posted by deSitter
We have to assume that the pilots were aware that the snow was powder (and even in the video, it sure looks and behaves like powder to me), and there was no ice beneath. Pilots are generally loath to kill themselves with stupidity.
"even in the video" - it's hard to see ice on a cheap phone recording - have a look ar the second take off vid posted on this thread - the ice barely shows up, but was obvious to the filmer.
Clear ice can hardly be seen in real life - even from the cabin windows, you have to feel for it.
"No ice beneath" - what was holding on to the bits of snow we can see even after the take off?
"Pilots are loath to kill themselves" - like idiots in cars, idiots on unstable ladders, etc etc, pilots can be stupid as well. The problem isn't that they are "loath to kill themselves" - its that they can't see the guy with the hood and sickle walking up behind them while they are laughing at the view out of the front window ....
Of COURSE there was danger. You can only even think "there was no danger" because you have seen the outcome.
If that film was shown only up to the point of V1 and then stopped, with a "what happens next" question ...
... what would be your response??
P.S. Are you a Russian Public Relations spammer?? Or are you really THAT stupid??
If that film was shown only up to the point of V1 and then stopped, with a "what happens next" question ...
... what would be your response??
P.S. Are you a Russian Public Relations spammer?? Or are you really THAT stupid??
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Home soon
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
De Sitter wrote
Apparently not aware of all the 'things than can and do go wrong'.
And yes aviation admits members who were not up to snuff, a prime example in this video.
Mistakes must be corrected,hence their licenses must be revoked.
GOOD NEWS is that you obviously aint a pilot.
Don't lecture me on accident reports. I'm well aware of all the things that can and do go wrong. But I always have confidence that the men and women up front will do their best on bad days. I assume there exists a culture of aviation that has its own internal rules, that are not all based on politics, and that in particular, pilots, like concert pianists, would be especially jealous of the honor of their guild, and would not admit members who were not up to snuff.
And yes aviation admits members who were not up to snuff, a prime example in this video.
Mistakes must be corrected,hence their licenses must be revoked.
GOOD NEWS is that you obviously aint a pilot.