Captain 'subdued' aboard JetBlue flight
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Being generally familiar with criminal procedure in federal court, I respectfully note that:
1. Osbon's attorney and the prosecutor reportedly entered into a stipulation that Osbon "is not now suffering from a mental disease or defect which would interfere with his ability to meet the legal criteria of competency to stand trial." Osbon agreed to that stipulation in open court.
2. One key word in that stipulation is "now." Being competent to stand trial now is a different question than whether Osbon was competent at the time of the incident. While in custody, he may have been treated with medication or perhaps ceased ingesting something (such as a nutritional supplement) that triggered his symptoms.
1. Osbon's attorney and the prosecutor reportedly entered into a stipulation that Osbon "is not now suffering from a mental disease or defect which would interfere with his ability to meet the legal criteria of competency to stand trial." Osbon agreed to that stipulation in open court.
2. One key word in that stipulation is "now." Being competent to stand trial now is a different question than whether Osbon was competent at the time of the incident. While in custody, he may have been treated with medication or perhaps ceased ingesting something (such as a nutritional supplement) that triggered his symptoms.
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family mental problems?
I'm not sure if this has been brought up before, but Osbon's father's death in a light airplane crash 17 yrs ago occured under very strange circumstances. I can't imagine how any sane person could burn all the fuel from one wing in a Beech Baron & then crash from fuel exhaustion with full tanks in the other wing. It seems totally irrational, but here is the NTSB report:
Untitled Page
Untitled Page
Last edited by BobM2; 18th Jun 2012 at 14:39. Reason: corrected link
Psychophysiological entity
He did put the flight in danger.
So did Captain Keys. Papa India's crash was such that people were right on the cusp of survival* Would it have been right for that skipper to be prosecuted had he survived? He was ill, and furthermore, his physical condition should well have set warning bells off - perhaps years before the crash.
*one of the officers attending the crash told me years later that rubbernecking traffic may well have stopped the emergency services saving lives.
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The FO did everything right. He was able to keep the crazed captain out of the cockpit and safely land the aircraft. Hope the captain is getting the help he needs. We rarely hear about these kind of events so are not trained for it so have to figure out how to deal with it on our own.
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Capt Keys
Loose, you forgot to mention all the union hassles that were going on within BEA at Hounslow Bus Garage at the time. The sledging that was going on in briefing as witnessed by the duty CDOs & briefing officers etc.
Psychophysiological entity
Indeed. In this day and age, the entire outfit would be defending a slew of lawsuits.
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bubbers44:
The FO wonderfully rose to the occasion. He must have been quite diplomatic in his choice of words and reactions to the long conversation he had with the captain before he (the FO) was able to effect his clever plan.
Keep in mind they had been aloft some 3 hours or so. Had the FO departed to go to the john, it could have been all over. Or, had he agitated the captain it could have been all over. The FO appears to be a genuine hero.
As to the captain I am sure he is getting medical care. The question remains for all of us who are not in the loop on this case: Was this the first psychotic event for the captain or was there prior knowledge of it? Everyone deserves an answer to that question once the captain's legal rights have been fulfilled.
The FO did everything right. He was able to keep the crazed captain out of the cockpit and safely land the aircraft. Hope the captain is getting the help he needs. We rarely hear about these kind of events so are not trained for it so have to figure out how to deal with it on our own.
Keep in mind they had been aloft some 3 hours or so. Had the FO departed to go to the john, it could have been all over. Or, had he agitated the captain it could have been all over. The FO appears to be a genuine hero.
As to the captain I am sure he is getting medical care. The question remains for all of us who are not in the loop on this case: Was this the first psychotic event for the captain or was there prior knowledge of it? Everyone deserves an answer to that question once the captain's legal rights have been fulfilled.
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Aterpster, he has been legally been declared sane to stand trial so we will hear his side of the story. I know he will never fly again but hope he can regain his dignity doing what he did. It seems unlikely but we will see.
The FO did everything right so prevented a possible mishap. Having someone to help him was good but he would have been fine landing single pilot. That is why we have two pilots in airliners. Hopefully that will never change.
The FO did everything right so prevented a possible mishap. Having someone to help him was good but he would have been fine landing single pilot. That is why we have two pilots in airliners. Hopefully that will never change.
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Sad state
A few years ago an SAA 747 capt on his way home with his wife asked her to stop so he could pop into a local store for a packet of cigs. She double parked while he popped into the shop. That was the last they saw of him. He was found 12 years later living as a homeless hobo on the streets. It took some real effort and time to get him to go back home. Maybe sometimes, the world just becomes too much and for that person, they just want to get off the bus. It is sad and I can only hope he settles down into a normal life cycle again. There, but for the grace of God, go the rest of us, I reckon.
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Here is a different link to the father's Beech Baron accident:
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20001207X03335&ntsbno=MIA95FA107&akey=1
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20001207X03335&ntsbno=MIA95FA107&akey=1
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Father's accident
Apparently NTSB has been messing with their website this weekend. If they are finished, this link should work:
Untitled Page
For those unfamiliar, the Beech Baron he was flying is a low wing light twin with a main & an aux tank in each wing to feed their respective engines. The two fuel selector valves are on a lighted panel between the seats. Each selector has 4 positions: off, aux, main, & crossfeed. The only conceivable way the aircraft could have arrived at the crash site with right wing empty & left wing full, is if it had flown the entire trip with the left engine on crossfeed from the right tanks. This should have early become obvious to any competent pilot from fuel gauges & left wing heaviness. In addition, to select the crossfeed position, the selector valve must be pressed down to bypass a detent. It is intended only for single engine operation & cannot be selected inadvertantly.
Was this a suicide disguised as an accident?
Untitled Page
For those unfamiliar, the Beech Baron he was flying is a low wing light twin with a main & an aux tank in each wing to feed their respective engines. The two fuel selector valves are on a lighted panel between the seats. Each selector has 4 positions: off, aux, main, & crossfeed. The only conceivable way the aircraft could have arrived at the crash site with right wing empty & left wing full, is if it had flown the entire trip with the left engine on crossfeed from the right tanks. This should have early become obvious to any competent pilot from fuel gauges & left wing heaviness. In addition, to select the crossfeed position, the selector valve must be pressed down to bypass a detent. It is intended only for single engine operation & cannot be selected inadvertantly.
Was this a suicide disguised as an accident?
Last edited by BobM2; 18th Jun 2012 at 14:37. Reason: corrected link
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A few years ago an SAA 747 capt on his way home with his wife asked her to stop so he could pop into a local store for a packet of cigs. She double parked while he popped into the shop. That was the last they saw of him. He was found 12 years later living as a homeless hobo on the streets. It took some real effort and time to get him to go back home. Maybe sometimes, the world just becomes too much and for that person, they just want to get off the bus.
It's one thing to quietly go off alone, in the street, quite another to endanger an entire flight as alleged.
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Interesting how Jet Blue passed up on my application but they have nut jobs like this flying their planes. The same could be said of Alaska...the captain decides to fly around for an hour and a half trimming up and down his elevator, getting worse and worse...but evidently I'm not good enough for them. You know, it's just sooo stupid out there right now in aviation, it's beyond pathetic.
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Well,
obviously they found the two to be competent and appropriatly trained at the time they hired them.
You don't seem to fit that description.
Being smart in hindsight and wanting to take advantage of somebody elses medical problems doesn't make you worth the job, in my opinion.
Zero insight into your own flaws - zero empathy (equals CRM fail).
Find another career -
obviously they found the two to be competent and appropriatly trained at the time they hired them.
You don't seem to fit that description.
Being smart in hindsight and wanting to take advantage of somebody elses medical problems doesn't make you worth the job, in my opinion.
Zero insight into your own flaws - zero empathy (equals CRM fail).
Find another career -
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sillypeoples
I understand your frustration and I hope you don't follow the admirals advice.
When I got my big airline job, I saw a bunch of mediocre pilots...just shocking. So hang in there and maybe things will work out.
I've never held the jetblue organization to be very good...same with alaska.
so try with a few other name lines! And hold on to a sense of humor.
This jetblue pilot in question ...do you ever wonder what might have happened if he had walked up and down the aisle a few times and gotten over what was bugging him? he might have gone on to land in las vegas on time.
we all get pissed off. and ranting a bit can help.
I once listened to my captain rant and rave about the FAA being screwed up on the PA system...we were all so embarrased, me and the three FA's got off the plane on to the jetway till he stopped talking...a deadheading pilot asked: ''is he ok?".
he was ok...just a jerk...
he kept a teddy bear on the anti glare panel named "LUCKY"...it was a pickup device, any FA (girl) that said: what's that? would get: he's lucky...do you want to get lucky?
he also had a pair of fuzzy dice hanging from the emergency power switch, looking like we were in a '57 chevy instead of a DC9.
nuts? no? a crack/crank? maybe...he didn't crash though.
maybe the world we live in post 911 is less tollerent of oddballs.
I understand your frustration and I hope you don't follow the admirals advice.
When I got my big airline job, I saw a bunch of mediocre pilots...just shocking. So hang in there and maybe things will work out.
I've never held the jetblue organization to be very good...same with alaska.
so try with a few other name lines! And hold on to a sense of humor.
This jetblue pilot in question ...do you ever wonder what might have happened if he had walked up and down the aisle a few times and gotten over what was bugging him? he might have gone on to land in las vegas on time.
we all get pissed off. and ranting a bit can help.
I once listened to my captain rant and rave about the FAA being screwed up on the PA system...we were all so embarrased, me and the three FA's got off the plane on to the jetway till he stopped talking...a deadheading pilot asked: ''is he ok?".
he was ok...just a jerk...
he kept a teddy bear on the anti glare panel named "LUCKY"...it was a pickup device, any FA (girl) that said: what's that? would get: he's lucky...do you want to get lucky?
he also had a pair of fuzzy dice hanging from the emergency power switch, looking like we were in a '57 chevy instead of a DC9.
nuts? no? a crack/crank? maybe...he didn't crash though.
maybe the world we live in post 911 is less tollerent of oddballs.
?
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@BobM2 - [Not a pilot] It seems easier to believe that someone trying to disguise a suicide would switch the selector to a reasonable position at the last moment. That is, one would not leave the Crash-this-airplane selector in the 'On' position if they were trying to make it look like an accident.
That does remind me of the C-130 "King 56" crash where all of the engines were starved. The fuel switches were found to be in unreasonable positions. Family members reckoned that the engineer probably tried all kinds of configurations and they just happened to be in unreasonable positions when the plane hit the water. Was the engineer mentally ill just like the father in the present thread?
That does remind me of the C-130 "King 56" crash where all of the engines were starved. The fuel switches were found to be in unreasonable positions. Family members reckoned that the engineer probably tried all kinds of configurations and they just happened to be in unreasonable positions when the plane hit the water. Was the engineer mentally ill just like the father in the present thread?
Last edited by fotoguzzi; 18th Jun 2012 at 02:19.