Captain 'subdued' aboard JetBlue flight
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 349
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From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Oh come on. Regardless of WHY he did what he did, you can't vaguely threaten a flying airliner when you are its captain, and expect to not have a rough go of it. Petty criminals are treated much worse in our local jails. Particularly the lower albedo ones.
-drl
-drl
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 694
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From: us
Daz, the nearest Federal Medical Center is in Ft. Worth Texas. However, it houses only female inmates. Possibly the closest Federal facility for males in custody would be at Rochester Minnesota, near the famous Mayo Clinic. But if he were transferred to Minnesota, the Federal courts in that state would not have jurisdiction as the crime(s) Osbon is charged with did not occur in/over Minnesota.
The Federal government very often lodges those in custody, after an arrest and before/during trial, in state or local government jails. Robert Reid, the 'shoebomber' was kept at the Plymouth County jail in Massachusetts before his trial. However, once convicted and sentenced, an individual, with few exceptions, is lodged at a Federal prison. All the necessary psychiatric and medical evaluations can readily be done at these state and local facilities.
The Federal government very often lodges those in custody, after an arrest and before/during trial, in state or local government jails. Robert Reid, the 'shoebomber' was kept at the Plymouth County jail in Massachusetts before his trial. However, once convicted and sentenced, an individual, with few exceptions, is lodged at a Federal prison. All the necessary psychiatric and medical evaluations can readily be done at these state and local facilities.
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,074
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From: Grassy Valley
SaturnV
I think Federal Jurisdiction is "Mobile". It carries State to State. The bottom line in today's Law, is the separate Branches of the federal Government are not on the same page.
Our President, whose Department of Justice is the authority in Federally charged crimes, has told the Supreme Court to "Long walk/Short pier". The Appeals Court has stabbed back; Our entire system of Authority is in erm.....flux.
I haven't seen evidence the Government is doing what it can't, only what it 'should not' expressed in settled Law and expectations.
Captain Osbon 'chose' an inopportune time to act as he did. I am also aware of a Drunken Captain who was severely punished for his escapades, to reacquire licensure and a new and respectful reputation in his airline. This too shall pass.
Sometimes one has to wait, to see, to understand, different problems. The FED is in limits, imho. I don't like it; but that is a separate issue?
I think Federal Jurisdiction is "Mobile". It carries State to State. The bottom line in today's Law, is the separate Branches of the federal Government are not on the same page.
Our President, whose Department of Justice is the authority in Federally charged crimes, has told the Supreme Court to "Long walk/Short pier". The Appeals Court has stabbed back; Our entire system of Authority is in erm.....flux.
I haven't seen evidence the Government is doing what it can't, only what it 'should not' expressed in settled Law and expectations.
Captain Osbon 'chose' an inopportune time to act as he did. I am also aware of a Drunken Captain who was severely punished for his escapades, to reacquire licensure and a new and respectful reputation in his airline. This too shall pass.
Sometimes one has to wait, to see, to understand, different problems. The FED is in limits, imho. I don't like it; but that is a separate issue?
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 349
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From: Atlanta, GA, USA
You are just now noticing this awful wretched fact? What about all the poor black people who are rousted for the most trivial crimes (e.g. loitering) brought before the judge in jail togs and manacled hand and foot? I guess that is OK by you because they are not airline captains. Yes, it is horrible - you can blame the "justo-tainment" industry (Nancy Grace, Judge Judy and other monsters), right-wing "law and order" types who understand neither law nor order, well, I could go on for hours. The justice system is horribly broken - and who broke it? Look in the mirror. WE did.
-drl
-drl
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,567
Likes: 2
From: Germany
It's S.O.P.
Restraints are used for the protection of both the accused and the cops. It's the same way that the cuffs go on when you get a ride in the cop car.
This guy flipped out once, and he's a big guy, a 250-pounder according to what I read. It's a lot simpler to have him already restrained, compared to having to wrassle him down and hog-tie him, if he loses it under the stress of his circumstances. You could just imagine how people would react if he were to injure someone or be injured himself after an unrestrained outburst similar the one he had on the aircraft.
I used to transport Federal prisoners occasionally in a small aircraft. Those guys were thoroughly restrained, and dosed with a tranquilizer, plus it was two guards to one prisoner. It was nothing personal, believe me!
This guy flipped out once, and he's a big guy, a 250-pounder according to what I read. It's a lot simpler to have him already restrained, compared to having to wrassle him down and hog-tie him, if he loses it under the stress of his circumstances. You could just imagine how people would react if he were to injure someone or be injured himself after an unrestrained outburst similar the one he had on the aircraft.
I used to transport Federal prisoners occasionally in a small aircraft. Those guys were thoroughly restrained, and dosed with a tranquilizer, plus it was two guards to one prisoner. It was nothing personal, believe me!
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 109
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From: Aggregating some marginal gains.
Ahh yes, it can be justified. Chucks just told you why. Its a system of protection for all involved. If this chap flipped out at the court house while not restrained and hurt someone, ALL of you who are currently bemoaning the fact that he is in shackles would without doubt decry the justice system for being lax, or unprepared.
You just remember that.
I hope the Captain gets the mental help required and makes a speedy recovery.
You just remember that.
I hope the Captain gets the mental help required and makes a speedy recovery.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,525
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From: fl
Being an airline captain does not exempt you from following customary procedure to deal with violating US laws. Interfering with a crew member does not exempt the captain if he is interfering with the safe operation of an aircraft from getting the same treatment.
I hope he gets the help he needs but he can't expect special treatment because he was the captain that went out of control.
I hope he gets the help he needs but he can't expect special treatment because he was the captain that went out of control.
Guest
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,336
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From: On the Beach
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 187
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From: lapbandland
Maybe just maybe
He had an argument with the F/O that caused the F/O to
get so angry that he locked him out of the cockpit, when
he went out to relieve himself.
Then, maybe just maybe, the Captain got so angry
about being locked out that he went berserk.
And, the captain is still berserk about it.
I WOULD BE
There are crazy F/O's out there too folks.
Just because the F/O decided the captain had lost it does'nt
mean its a fact.
An interesting case, which will be a great debating
topic in all areas of industry.
Are all your nuclear power workers stable ?
who makes the call ?
He had an argument with the F/O that caused the F/O to
get so angry that he locked him out of the cockpit, when
he went out to relieve himself.
Then, maybe just maybe, the Captain got so angry
about being locked out that he went berserk.
And, the captain is still berserk about it.
I WOULD BE
There are crazy F/O's out there too folks.
Just because the F/O decided the captain had lost it does'nt
mean its a fact.
An interesting case, which will be a great debating
topic in all areas of industry.
Are all your nuclear power workers stable ?
who makes the call ?
Guest
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 0
From: On the Beach
bootfa:
I believe the NTSB got control of the DCVR, which is probably a two hour recording, at least.
Maybe just maybe
He had an argument with the F/O that caused the F/O to
get so angry that he locked him out of the cockpit, when
he went out to relieve himself.
Then, maybe just maybe, the Captain got so angry
about being locked out that he went berserk.
He had an argument with the F/O that caused the F/O to
get so angry that he locked him out of the cockpit, when
he went out to relieve himself.
Then, maybe just maybe, the Captain got so angry
about being locked out that he went berserk.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
From: USA
Looks like Osbon's problem may not be temporary. A judge ordered a psych exam today (Wednesday):
Judge orders psychiatric exam for JetBlue pilot - CNN.com
There is reason to believe Osbon "may presently be suffering from a mental disease or defect rendering him mentally incompetent" to understand the case against him and assist in his defense, the U.S. Attorney's Office said in a Texas court filing.
Joined: Jul 2009
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 1,597
Likes: 192
From: Not far from a big Lake
Probably a small point, but if Capt Osbon was initially responsible for the aircraft as aircraft commander as it departed, was he ever formally relieved of his duties (other than by being overpowered)? If not, it would be understandable that he would react physically to the unexplained (to him) assault on his person and the usurping of his authority. This would weaken the Federal case against him.
Granted, it appears completely necessary that he needed to be removed from command given his mental state, and it it would have been foolish for the copilot to personally address the Captain under the circumstances in that aircraft to formally relieve him. It is just that the legal case against him may be flawed by these events.
Granted, it appears completely necessary that he needed to be removed from command given his mental state, and it it would have been foolish for the copilot to personally address the Captain under the circumstances in that aircraft to formally relieve him. It is just that the legal case against him may be flawed by these events.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 694
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From: us
ST27, Osbon had been undergoing psychiatric evaluation at the Northwest Texas Hospital in Amarillo. It would seem the results of those hospital evaluations were sufficient to now transfer him into a Federal (Bureau of Prisons) medical center for a more extensive psychiatric evaluation. This suggests there was not an underlying neurological or physiological condition that suddenly precipitated his behavior, nor was the onset caused by his taking supplements to boost energy, lose weight, enhance performance, etc.
These initial psychiatric evaluations may also indicate he poses a continuing risk of harm to himself and/or others, and thus no release on bond.
A description of psychiatric evaluations done at the Federal medical center at Devens Massachusetts (outside of Boston) can be found here.
http://www.bop.gov/jobs/students/cpdipdev2.pdf
Look for sections on forensic evaluation.
These initial psychiatric evaluations may also indicate he poses a continuing risk of harm to himself and/or others, and thus no release on bond.
A description of psychiatric evaluations done at the Federal medical center at Devens Massachusetts (outside of Boston) can be found here.
http://www.bop.gov/jobs/students/cpdipdev2.pdf
Look for sections on forensic evaluation.
Guest
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,336
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From: On the Beach
Machinbird:
Granted, it appears completely necessary that he needed to be removed fromcommand given his mental state, and it it would have been foolish for thecopilot to personally address the Captain under the circumstances in thataircraft to formally relieve him. It is just that the legal case against himmay be flawed by these events.
Read the link I posted to the chargingdocument and affidavit supporting the charging. The F/O had no choice other than to do what he did. An incapacitated PIC can no longer act as PIC.
Probably a small point, but ifCapt Osbon was initially responsible for the aircraft as aircraft commander asit departed, was he ever formally relieved of his duties (other than by beingoverpowered)? If not, it would be understandable that he would react physicallyto the unexplained (to him) assault on his person and the usurping of hisauthority. This would weaken the Federal case against him.
Granted, it appears completely necessary that he needed to be removed fromcommand given his mental state, and it it would have been foolish for thecopilot to personally address the Captain under the circumstances in thataircraft to formally relieve him. It is just that the legal case against himmay be flawed by these events.
Joined: Jul 2009
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 1,597
Likes: 192
From: Not far from a big Lake
Aterpster
Please understand, I have no disagreement with the F/O's actions. Just that the government's legal case may be flawed, as in not enforceable.
Maritime law no doubt has set applicable legal precedents.
Read the link I posted to the charging document and affidavit supporting the charging. The F/O had no choice other than to do what he did. An incapacitated PIC can no longer act as PIC.
Maritime law no doubt has set applicable legal precedents.